shouldnt all shotguns be able to breach doors?

[MadRooster]

just curious why only breaching shotguns

[shadowsc133]

Originally posted by Graywolf364:

I just hope they read my proposals for how to improve shotguns in general. Since that would make them a much more nuanced choice in a world of rifles and bring mechanical enhancements to all the weapons.

Out of curiosity I ran the lobby shoot house with the breaching shotgun (game does register it as valid hits) and given the limited tube size and the lack of sights, I think the breaching shotgun is 'balanced' enough that it should be able to do damage and work as an emergency self defense weapon immediately after breaching the door. I'm sure it will become popular for a time to use the breaching sock gun as a pseudo second primary weapon, and I say so what. This is a PvE game and a tactical sandbox. If players want to run the Breaching shotgun like a primary weapon more power to them.

I agree. I normally don`t carry a shotgun as primary, having a breaching shotgun on a limited capacity as a backup would be awesome!

[Graywolf364]

Not as cool as a breaching 'sock gun' that's got to be one of my best typos.

[Graywolf364]

Take a look at my previous discussion, Shotgun Mechanics Overhaul Suggestions - Fixed Cruiser Ready, Manual Chamber Clearing, Select Slug, and Twin Loads. I think you might find it interesting and I obviously believe that it would enhance and add more nuance to a weapons platform that is largely useless right now.

[shadowsc133]

Originally posted by Graywolf364:

Not as cool as a breaching 'sock gun' that's got to be one of my best typos.

And that`s another topic! Imagine if RoN SWAT was on the vanguard, retiring the lousy tasers and adopting PhaSRs lol

[Graywolf364]

Originally posted by shadowsc133:

Originally posted by Graywolf364:

Not as cool as a breaching 'sock gun' that's got to be one of my best typos.

And that`s another topic! Imagine if RoN SWAT was on the vanguard, retiring the lousy tasers and adopting PhaSRs lol

Why not go all the way and turn it into a sequel to Elite Force. I'm calling it now, the first DLC will be Star Trek: Elite Force III

[shadowsc133]

Originally posted by Graywolf364:

Originally posted by shadowsc133:

And that`s another topic! Imagine if RoN SWAT was on the vanguard, retiring the lousy tasers and adopting PhaSRs lol

Why not go all the way and turn it into a sequel to Elite Force. I'm calling it now, the first DLC will be Star Trek: Elite Force III

Lol not sure, I meant the real PhaSR they used in Somalia circa 1995. Tbh even a water gun is more reliable than the tasers (in real life and in-game). The breaching shotgun at least can open doors in the game.

https://newatlas.com/phasr-the-first-man-portable-non-lethal-deterrent-weapon/4815/
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8275-us-military-sets-laser-phasrs-to-stun/

[Graywolf364]

To my knowledge, there is only one local agency in the US that uses laser weapons. But after their 2020 success with them other agencies may have quietly added them to their inventory. That's the GLARE HELIOS from the excellent and local BE Meyers.

A dazzler could be a cool addition added to the tactical slot as an alternative to OC spray.

[Graywolf364]

Oh and I've been tased in real life. The current ones are very reliable if one understands how they work and when to use them.

The other hard thing with tasers is that corrections uses them alot so all the folks coming out of jail or prison know how to do the drop and roll, barb sweap, or make book armor.

[shadowsc133]

Originally posted by Graywolf364:

Oh and I've been tased in real life. The current ones are very reliable if one understands how they work and when to use them.

The other hard thing with tasers is that corrections uses them alot so all the folks coming out of jail or prison know how to do the drop and roll, barb sweap, or make book armor.

Tasers are poop, whoever created or adopted them should be answering questions in court.

The manufacturer claims they have a "field success rate" of 94% when a study shows less than 54% in some cities. One thing that is abundant is videos of tasers failing on youtube.

But I agree most of the issues are due to application. Doesn`t help that it is such a limited device and even a loose hoodie, fast-moving suspect, or when firing from less than 9ft or more than 15ft renders it useless.

A novelty that should be banned from any LE use.

[Graywolf364]

The heart attack risk is also a major issue. I'd much rather get tased then any of the other less lethals (specking from experience) and a still think they have a place. But there needs to be a recuning about when they are used. Like all less lethals they have a very specific niche and huge limitations.

[shadowsc133]

Originally posted by 76561198012396196:

The heart attack risk is also a major issue. I'd much rather get tased then any of the other less lethals (specking from experience) and a still think they have a place. But there needs to be a recuning about when they are used. Like all less lethals they have a very specific niche and a huge limations.

Yeah, I think heart attacks are the smallest of the problems, probably a very small number of people die of myocardial infarctions. I believe that is a reason they manage to sell this scam to the public. It emerges as a safe, non-lethal life-saving device when, due to its terrible efficacy, cops end up shooting people that could be taken alive.

I`m not saying I know the best solution, but I`m sure Tasers aren`t it. I would never carry one for self-protection. Not even against dogs. Immagine aiming and hitting one running towards you within the 0.12s time frame it takes for him to travel through the effective range (7-15ft). If you miss the single shot you are dinner. Imagine a grown person that can bite, shoot or stab you? No thanks.

Nothing with 55% reliability rates and with such a poor track record and usability should ever be accepted. I just wish we had serious numbers (anything gun or violence related tends to meet a brick wall). Would love to compare the efficacy of old batons and other means against these foppish toys.

[DJK83]

Originally posted by Graywolf364:

Originally posted by ✠ GUNNAR ✠:

They need to fix the breaching shotgun so you can't blow open a door from 20 feet away with it.

You're absolutely right, I didn't test that until you mentioned. Thats a huge oversight that I hope they fix. You should only be able to breach doors with the breaching shotgun at near contact ranges.

That's actually a misconception; breaching rounds are designed to turn to dust after they hit something solid, but will stay intact until then. There are multiple videos on YouTube which show that they essentially act like slugs until they hit the first target. A test against ballistics gel had 10 inches of penetration from a distance of 15 feet. So, interestingly, RoN actually got the breaching part right (although it's obviously unrealistic that you don't have to aim at the correct part of the door/frame). What they got wrong is the low damage against human targets, when in reality, breaching rounds would be devastating.

[shadowsc133]

Originally posted by DJK83:

Originally posted by Graywolf364:

You're absolutely right, I didn't test that until you mentioned. Thats a huge oversight that I hope they fix. You should only be able to breach doors with the breaching shotgun at near contact ranges.

That's actually a misconception; breaching rounds are designed to turn to dust after they hit something solid, but will stay intact until then. There are multiple videos on YouTube which show that they essentially act like slugs until they hit the first target. A test against ballistics gel had 10 inches of penetration from a distance of 15 feet. So, interestingly, RoN actually got the breaching part right (although it's obviously unrealistic that you don't have to aim at the correct part of the door/frame). What they got wrong is the low damage against human targets, when in reality, breaching rounds would be devastating.

Even salt rounds deter perps, to a degree.

I remember the fear of getting shot when, as kids, we used to borrow mandarins from a neighbor's farm. He yelled and shot towards the sky.

No doubt he would salt our ass if we kept doing it. BS on RoN doesn`t even trigger a morale decrease on AI. You are better off punching, shield bashing, or ramming.

[Graywolf364]

Originally posted by DJK83:

Originally posted by Graywolf364:

You're absolutely right, I didn't test that until you mentioned. Thats a huge oversight that I hope they fix. You should only be able to breach doors with the breaching shotgun at near contact ranges.

That's actually a misconception; breaching rounds are designed to turn to dust after they hit something solid, but will stay intact until then. There are multiple videos on YouTube which show that they essentially act like slugs until they hit the first target. A test against ballistics gel had 10 inches of penetration from a distance of 15 feet. So, interestingly, RoN actually got the breaching part right (although it's obviously unrealistic that you don't have to aim at the correct part of the door/frame). What they got wrong is the low damage against human targets, when in reality, breaching rounds would be devastating.

True, but you don't see anybody Breaching doors from 10 yards away in a LEO contact. And you lose out on muzzle blast as an assist. Getting the right angle on various parts of the door is also critical. So to represent all of that you shouldn't be able to breach doors out of anything other than contact ranges.

[Graywolf364]

^^ I I think we essentially agree on tasers just differ on a matter of degrees. I still think they have a place, all less lethals are by definition less lethal and really don't work all that well. So tasers are just one of the many possible tools that can be utilized to resolve some situations. But they aren't the miracle device that they were billed as when they first started hitting the street.

Putting on my dog handler (detection and protection, working and sport) hat again. I absolutely would not use a Taser on a charging dog. Much too difficult to get both prongs deployed. One of the agencies I used to work with did used to frequently used tasers on dogs, but always with some sort of physical barrier between the deputy and the dog. As a way to subdue the dog in the backyard before making entry into the building to serve a search warrant. I haven't worked with that agency in a while, but the last I heard they no longer do that after a policy change. On a dog charge if you're fast enough you might be able to deploy OC spray, but as a former quarry/decoy you're more likely going to have to accept that you're going to get hit and use the seconds you have before that point to manage where you're going to take the bite and develop a plan for what happens when you get hit. Very few people truly understand what a dog looks like and what it can do if it truly wants to hurt you. It's a scary thing.