Is this game better than SWAT 4?

[Bigboss PC Faster]

?

[Cryptic]

引用自 Lithium：

Not even close, lol.

it's fun but this ^ agreed

[Korma]

Without SEF mod, no. With SEF mod, Yes!

[Leuftles]

Play swat 4 instead, Is better than paying for this "full game"

[666]

Hey everyone, I just started playing SWAT 4 BTLA and i'm seriously enjoying it. Although I have a question, is there a mod or configuration that makes enemy AI shoot/react faster? the game is great, i'm just looking for more of a challenge

[Carbon]

I thought this was an interesting question, so I re-installed SWAT 4 and TSS and no, it's not a better game. It's the same game, just old.

Of course graphically it cannot compare (even with 2 graphics mods installed) but I found the AI to be only marginally less effective and the general jank that accompanies old games is clear. Jerky animations, odd hitboxes, AI getting stuck and having to tell them multiple times what to do...all there.

The only real benefit is the huge selection of maps and mods and that the game runs at hundreds of frames per second, so it's smooth as silk. I also like how the context menu works; right clicking and selecting team actions from the resulting drop-down list feels very good, easier than middle-mouse clicking. But hey, I like ADS too. :P

However, I think if RoN continues tweaking, providing some more general content and the modders get stable releases upon which to create, it's a clear winner.

It's fun to play SWAT 4 and it's a great game, for sure...I'm not uninstalling. But RoN is better and on the right path.

[Oggmeista]

引用自 Zaeldˣˢ：

引用自 Oggmeista：

I think maybe threes been some misinterpretation, as i cannot find a single tutorial or showcase of this feature in RoN , i know you can look both ways with the mirror when placed under a door, but that wan't what i meant, which was being able to see around corners like you could in Swat4

I clipped a couple parts to show you some examples of corner peaking with it.

Example 1
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxv503iZW4pvoo0whWhe4MvV5C9zRACGt7?si=0IrQDHP9MeKOmZxC

Example 2
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx1WfSq4tP9E29f1Jfs20brrOkOg2nHbRV?si=ExDGPTplbhwJbwqI

First appreciate posting these, Hmm interesting but neither of these are the same as was possible in swat 4... these are basically letting you see what's ahead of you without revealing your actual presence but in swat 4 you could gain a view of what was around a literal corner ie at a perpendicular angle to you that is 90 degrees right angle, i actually did experiment, and in my tests (RoN) it was showing me what was behind me which is strange now after looking at these? Pretty sure that was the case because i had a door behind me i viewed it with the door closed and open, and it changed in the image..

I wish i could find actual footage of how the mirror worked in swat 4 so you can get a pictorial representation of the differences, in it's functionality between the 2 games, but so far i havn't found what i was looking for the purposes of comparing, unless somehow there is a way of also doing this in RoN?...idk.

[Carbon]

引用自 Oggmeista：

First appreciate posting these, Hmm interesting but neither of these are the same as was possible in swat 4... these are basically letting you see what's ahead of you without revealing your actual presence but in swat 4 you could gain a view of what was around a literal corner ie at a perpendicular angle to you that is 90 degrees right angle, i actually did experiment, and in my tests (RoN) it was showing me what was behind me which is strange now after looking at these? Pretty sure that was the case because i had a door behind me i viewed it with the door closed and open, and it changed in the image..

I wish i could find actual footage of how the mirror worked in swat 4 so you can get a pictorial representation of the differences, in it's functionality between the 2 games, but so far i havn't found what i was looking for the purposes of comparing, unless somehow there is a way of also doing this in RoN?...idk.

You can look at 90 degrees around corners with the Optiwand in RoN. It's the same as in SWAT 4. I reinstalled SWAT 4 yesterday and found the function between the two to be the same.

[somefish]

SWAT 4 is still so much better gameplay wise and idc that it looks dated

[Carbon]

引用自 ShuckTheFutUp：

SWAT 4 is still so much better gameplay wise and idc that it looks dated

That says nothing qualitative. It's your opinion, but contributes nothing of any substance at all and only invites more questions or contrary reactions.

Or maybe not, seeing as many seem to share your view and thus give you some measure of protection against being asked how and why.

[Major Fret]

引用自 Carbon：

引用自 ShuckTheFutUp：

SWAT 4 is still so much better gameplay wise and idc that it looks dated

That says nothing qualitative. It's your opinion, but contributes nothing of any substance at all and only invites more questions or contrary reactions.

Or maybe not, seeing as many seem to share your view and thus give you some measure of protection against being asked how and why.

Well if you want a direct comparison:

-Suspect gas masks actually work in SWAT 4
-SWAT AI in SWAT 4 is far from perfect, but at least you don't have to tell them to hold position every 5 seconds when their OCD kicks in over dropped weapons/unrestrained suspects
-SWAT 4's tutorial is much better than RoNs. SWAT 4 also does a lot better job of easing newer players into difficulty.
-Suspects actually show a difference in behavior based on their experience level and or background in SWAT 4
-Civilian behavior is much more dynamic and they can actually be resistant depending on the level
-Equipment UI is more user friendly and explains equipment in much better detail than RoN does. It's also much faster to get into a mission than it is in RoN.
-Sever browser (I'm sure those who've had run ins with the mad preacher would really appreciate this)
-Better Health Paperdoll (yeah it's a bit nitpicky, but that's been an issue with RoN for years at this point and it should be an easy fix)
-Sniper support
-Dialog that relates to map rather than saying "TOC, securing evidence' when finding big revelations
-The one time you're expected to arrest an armed suspect in SWAT 4, they act in a way that makes this reasonable. In RoN every suspect is on suicidal maniac mode.
-Brightness adjustment (How RoN has yet to put this in after 2+ years in early access is inexcusable)
-No draw distance issues

Whilst there are things I think RoN does better than SWAT 4 (Shotguns, more reasonable inventory size, modernized gun handling), the core experience RoN brings to the table lacks in comparison to SWAT 4.

[Carbon]

引用自 Major Fret：

Well if you want a direct comparison:

-Suspect gas masks actually work in SWAT 4
-SWAT AI in SWAT 4 is far from perfect, but at least you don't have to tell them to hold position every 5 seconds when their OCD kicks in over dropped weapons/unrestrained suspects
-SWAT 4's tutorial is much better than RoNs. SWAT 4 also does a lot better job of easing newer players into difficulty.
-Suspects actually show a difference in behavior based on their experience level and or background in SWAT 4
-Civilian behavior is much more dynamic and they can actually be resistant depending on the level
-Equipment UI is more user friendly and explains equipment in much better detail than RoN does. It's also much faster to get into a mission than it is in RoN.
-Sever browser (I'm sure those who've had run ins with the mad preacher would really appreciate this)
-Better Health Paperdoll (yeah it's a bit nitpicky, but that's been an issue with RoN for years at this point and it should be an easy fix)
-Sniper support
-Dialog that relates to map rather than saying "TOC, securing evidence' when finding big revelations
-The one time you're expected to arrest an armed suspect in SWAT 4, they act in a way that makes this reasonable. In RoN every suspect is on suicidal maniac mode.
-Brightness adjustment (How RoN has yet to put this in after 2+ years in early access is inexcusable)
-No draw distance issues

Whilst there are things I think RoN does better than SWAT 4 (Shotguns, more reasonable inventory size, modernized gun handling), the core experience RoN brings to the table lacks in comparison to SWAT 4.

Well, okay, I wasn't talking to you, but sure, some backing up of an opinion is always a good thing.

I could challenge a significant number of your points, but hey, I'm not going to change your mind and this thread isn't about counter opinions. SWAT 4 is a great game, but I think to argue that it's better than RoN is hard, if only because RoN is still a work in progress (slow as that might be).

[Lithium]

引用自 Major Fret：

引用自 Carbon：

That says nothing qualitative. It's your opinion, but contributes nothing of any substance at all and only invites more questions or contrary reactions.

Or maybe not, seeing as many seem to share your view and thus give you some measure of protection against being asked how and why.

Well if you want a direct comparison:

-Suspect gas masks actually work in SWAT 4
-SWAT AI in SWAT 4 is far from perfect, but at least you don't have to tell them to hold position every 5 seconds when their OCD kicks in over dropped weapons/unrestrained suspects
-SWAT 4's tutorial is much better than RoNs. SWAT 4 also does a lot better job of easing newer players into difficulty.
-Suspects actually show a difference in behavior based on their experience level and or background in SWAT 4
-Civilian behavior is much more dynamic and they can actually be resistant depending on the level
-Equipment UI is more user friendly and explains equipment in much better detail than RoN does. It's also much faster to get into a mission than it is in RoN.
-Sever browser (I'm sure those who've had run ins with the mad preacher would really appreciate this)
-Better Health Paperdoll (yeah it's a bit nitpicky, but that's been an issue with RoN for years at this point and it should be an easy fix)
-Sniper support
-Dialog that relates to map rather than saying "TOC, securing evidence' when finding big revelations
-The one time you're expected to arrest an armed suspect in SWAT 4, they act in a way that makes this reasonable. In RoN every suspect is on suicidal maniac mode.
-Brightness adjustment (How RoN has yet to put this in after 2+ years in early access is inexcusable)
-No draw distance issues

Whilst there are things I think RoN does better than SWAT 4 (Shotguns, more reasonable inventory size, modernized gun handling), the core experience RoN brings to the table lacks in comparison to SWAT 4.

"-SWAT AI in SWAT 4 is far from perfect, but at least you don't have to tell them to hold position every 5 seconds when their OCD kicks in over dropped weapons/unrestrained suspects".

Hahaha, indeed!

[noSense]

引用自 Major Fret：

引用自 Carbon：

That says nothing qualitative. It's your opinion, but contributes nothing of any substance at all and only invites more questions or contrary reactions.

Or maybe not, seeing as many seem to share your view and thus give you some measure of protection against being asked how and why.

Well if you want a direct comparison:

-Suspect gas masks actually work in SWAT 4
-SWAT AI in SWAT 4 is far from perfect, but at least you don't have to tell them to hold position every 5 seconds when their OCD kicks in over dropped weapons/unrestrained suspects
-SWAT 4's tutorial is much better than RoNs. SWAT 4 also does a lot better job of easing newer players into difficulty.
-Suspects actually show a difference in behavior based on their experience level and or background in SWAT 4
-Civilian behavior is much more dynamic and they can actually be resistant depending on the level
-Equipment UI is more user friendly and explains equipment in much better detail than RoN does. It's also much faster to get into a mission than it is in RoN.
-Sever browser (I'm sure those who've had run ins with the mad preacher would really appreciate this)
-Better Health Paperdoll (yeah it's a bit nitpicky, but that's been an issue with RoN for years at this point and it should be an easy fix)
-Sniper support
-Dialog that relates to map rather than saying "TOC, securing evidence' when finding big revelations
-The one time you're expected to arrest an armed suspect in SWAT 4, they act in a way that makes this reasonable. In RoN every suspect is on suicidal maniac mode.
-Brightness adjustment (How RoN has yet to put this in after 2+ years in early access is inexcusable)
-No draw distance issues

Whilst there are things I think RoN does better than SWAT 4 (Shotguns, more reasonable inventory size, modernized gun handling), the core experience RoN brings to the table lacks in comparison to SWAT 4.

I not 100% agree, so I think that on average RoN are close in the end, but thinks for a detailed and coherent answer.

Also, guys on A Lethal Obsession were actually resistant to gas for me, but maybe I got lucky and it does not work all the time.

Equipment UI, I would agree it's less comfortable in RoN, I probably just pay less attention to it.

[somefish]

I just hate that the enemy AI is so unrealistic in RoN, not even close to the one of SWAT 4.

[Lithium]

引用自 Rexali_：

Both are great in their timelines. Also, if this game was supported by a big publisher like Activision, Electronic Arts, Microsoft, or whatever, it could be much better and become stable much faster. Unfortunately, indie developers listen to gamers desires way more than big and old publishers, but the issue is that they have limited budget and work force issues. That's why I understand them.

However, I have played this game enough in Early Access and after release, and I am waiting until A.I. gets fixed before returning to it again. Right now, Swat 4 is installed on my PC, and I'm playing it.

https://i.postimg.cc/9fqy51mH/GoG.png

https://i.postimg.cc/ThM3bq8g/Swat-Save-Results.png

---------------------------------------------------------
P.S. There have been too many people quitting game companies since Corona. Personally, I never liked Microsoft purchases like Activision, Blizzard, and Bethesda. It's great if you play their games on GamePass for a cheaper price, but what about if this causes their IP qualities to reduce significantly? Like someone said a couple weeks ago, the CoD campaign will become open for the next few years. It means we should totally lose hope to see another great campaign.

Instead, It would be great if Microsoft had bought indie developers like the ones who make great Early Access games on Steam. It would have way less cost for Microsoft and way more new creative IP for its company, which would cause way more gamers to find a reason to buy an Xbox console.

There are many Early Access games like Ground Branch that have been in development for many years, and the developers behind them are from the OG Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six games. So their developers are experienced, but they lack a budget and a large work force.

While i do completely agree with you, let us not forget how extremely well this game sold for a very high price. One would think a indie studio would hire a few people to fix the AI and add more things by now. But here we are.
Also, as we can see on the roadmap - paid DLC are already planned for the spring and the summer 2024. Paid DLC instead of fixing basic things.
So i am not on board on the "poor indie studio" cart.
And as much as i hate to rain on the parade - what did this game do well? A few really good level designers with and eye for details, which create the athmosphere.
What else? Lighting? No. AI? Below basic. Amazing cutscenes? Bug free gameplay?
Mission planning like 25 years old R6 RS? Nothing. Yet paid DLC on the move.