Difficulty of the mission "Ides of March"

[Sergio Ruiz]

Hello, this discussion is to let you know my perception of the difficulty of the mission "", to contrast it with your point of view and to accept advice.

It turns out that this mission takes place in a luxurious apartment complex where a group of terrorists have barricaded themselves in the middle of a presidential campaign. I can't help but think that the map, being too small, has enemies with unmatched hearing and reflexes.

It is crossing the emergency door by which the mission begin and all the enemies start to scream making you understand that they know that you are here and even your exact location. It is impossible to catch them by surprise and, to make matters worse, they all seem to have assault rifles with bullet penetration and ballistic vests that allow them to hold almost a magazine of MP5.
From my point of view, I find very difficult to disarm the enemies because they are already waiting around every corner ready to kill me by bullet penetration.

What do you think about this, what advice could you give me to improve? Really like this game but getting the "S" in this map is gettin much worse than I though it would be.

[Dreepa]

Here's my S rank run.
No clue if it helps, but that's how it worked for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdXAGPNg59s

[Conor McNegor]

At this point im just happy to finish the mission without killing civs

[Sergio Ruiz]

Originally posted by Dreepa:

Here's my S rank run.
No clue if it helps, but that's how it worked for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdXAGPNg59s

Thanks mate. I use flashbangs instead of smoke grenades. Maybe using smoke will be more effective. I'll try it. Do you use any mod or is just the game itself? By the way, why do you use a combination of no lethal shotgun and non lethal rifle for your squad?

[Dreepa]

Originally posted by Sergio Ruiz:

Originally posted by Dreepa:

Here's my S rank run.
No clue if it helps, but that's how it worked for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdXAGPNg59s

Thanks mate. I use flashbangs instead of smoke grenades. Maybe using smoke will be more effective. I'll try it. Do you use any mod or is just the game itself? By the way, why do you use a combination of no lethal shotgun and non lethal rifle for your squad? :Chief_Knife:

Yeah, gas grenades are awesome when the map is not too big.
And no I don't use any mods.

I use team blue for close range (shotgun) team red is long range (rifle).
This is good when I manually order them to cover. So team red can cover longer distance (floor) and team blue can cover short distance (door ahead for example).

[ReBootXD]

The AI on this map are no different than any other

[Sergio Ruiz]

Originally posted by ReBootXD:

The AI on this map are no different than any other

Never said that, mate. I'm saying that this map is hard and need some advices to get better.

[Sergio Ruiz]

Originally posted by DuckieMcduck:

The difficulty spike for Ides comes in the shape of long hallways, multiple doorways, and booby traps. All these things are controlled by Ballistic Shield and Wedges respectively. From there on the game will have levels which mix these components.

The officer up front will always draw the fire of suspects, so a shield on that officer can easily absorb the aggro while the team handles the firefight (he can shoot too if need be). It helps that you also can only peek doors with shield, so it will naturally be checking of traps with no chance of fumbling the input.

The easy cheese is to counter-clockwise clear these hallways first, wedging every door (including the middle ones) until you get to the laundry room, from there you start reopening the doors clockwise. You'll clear the first sniper room, then the musician's room which contains the infamous death balcony; this is because it's a glitchy spot where AI can shoot through the blurred windows like it's nothing. It's vital that you as the shield go for the balcony and secure it.

From there you just keep clearing as usual. If you get really injured as shield it's better to let the AI try to handle clearing.

Damn!! Nice tips!!! Thanks, man. I'm gonna try it rightaway!!

[[SOS]DEV_NULL]

I got S rank a few days ago, load up on gas grenades, use the mirror and when you start move in solo and remove the majority of the guards without the team.

[PetDetective512]

This game's RNG is very noticeable here. I've encountered an apartment full of 5 suspects before and the rest of the apartments were empty and only 2 in the hallway and 1 in the laundry room. Rest of rooms like I said were empty. So ya, contingency plans like shields, gas, and wands will come in handy. I didn't have a contingency plan and it was the first room I decided to clear so ya that was fun.

[Tyrant (My Vision is Augmented)]

Originally posted by Sergio Ruiz:

Originally posted by Dreepa:

Here's my S rank run.
No clue if it helps, but that's how it worked for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdXAGPNg59s

Thanks mate. I use flashbangs instead of smoke grenades. Maybe using smoke will be more effective. I'll try it. Do you use any mod or is just the game itself? By the way, why do you use a combination of no lethal shotgun and non lethal rifle for your squad? :Chief_Knife:

Flashbangs are, by a long shot, the worst grenade type in the game.

Other people have given you great tips, but I'll give some of mine, as someone who can no S rank this mission fairly easily.

The techniques you learn in this mission will serve you well for most of the missions to come. Every room you enter, you should be using a deployable of some sort (grenade, launcher, or shield). You should be wanding under every door and getting an understanding of what is on the other side and to check for traps (other missions will have traps as well going forward).

The long hall ways in this level work to your advantage - as they allow you to lock down huge portions of the map by just having your team in the hall way. control is the name of the game - and with that, door wedges are a massive part of that strategy.

Suspects have two systems that you need to be aware of - stress and morale. Loud noises, like gun shots, C2 charges, flashbangs, etc. will increase stress (and some of them will also lower morale) - which makes suspects more agitated, more likely to make stupid choices, and more likely to be suicidal. Morale is lowered by using less lethals and stunning suspects. If morale is low enough, when you shout at a suspect, they will surrender. This is why CS gas is so powerful in the game - despite having a fairly large radius, and stunning people for much longer, and causing them to cough so you know where they are - it lowers morale without raising the stress of people in nearby rooms, unlike flashbangs and stingers.

My strategy is fairly simple - pick the fire escape entrance, and send your team in first to secure the hall way after checking for traps under the door. With them locking down the hallway, check the center room with the mirror gun - if it has more than 2 people inside, I wedge the doors closed (both sets), and get to work on the rooms, and save the center for last (there is a good chance one will wander out into the hallway via the furthest door, and will make our lives easier later on). One person or less, we deploy the team to take the room.

From here, we work counter clockwise. We mirror gun every door, then tell the team to deploy using smoke and clear. As the mission moves on, and you run out of smokes, switch to stingers and flashes (with fewer people left in the level by that point, flashes are safer to use). After you clear a room, head back out into the hallway to establish dominance, and move to the next room, working counter-clockwise. Check for traps, send the team with a deployable, rinse and repeat.

I typically like to have one teammate running a shield with the FiveSeven (only handgun that remotely tries to get through body armor in the game), and everyone else running... whatever you want. The breaching shotgun is inferior to C2 in most situations, and the launchers aren't used very well by AI teammates. I like heavy, steel armor for this mission, but have done it plenty in light ceramic as well - you just run the risk of dying to random BS more frequently. For S rank, swap the shields with launchers (you'll need the extra grenades), remove all the pistol ammo, and give everyone a pepperball gun, with one guy running a beanbag shotgun. If your aim is good, bring a beanbag gun. If it isn't, use a pepperball gun with a laser and canted aiming. Same strategy, just be mindful of surrendered suspects (tell them to face away from you and crawl to you to keep them from standing back up, or shoot pepperballs next to them, not directly at them) - easy S rank.

Final notes to remember: the final AI suspect in EVERY level will hunt you down. People complained about having to find the last suspect on large levels, so the last AI suspect in every level will suddenly know where you are, and come find you like a maniac. If this suspect is behind you when this happens... you will likely die. Keep this in mind for every level, and plan accordingly - the tactics you employ to prevent dying from the last bad guy will serve you well for every other bad guy on the map, as you work to try to control sectors of fire and negative space, and wedge doors strategically to create choke points.

Also, these guys are running body armor, and most enemies will continue to do so in many future missions. You should be using a rifle with AP rounds. SMGs in this game are awful beyond the first 3 missions (remember - every shot fired raises suspect stress... bullet hoses make your life way harder, have trouble with armor, eat through ammo on the big maps later on, and just don't kill as quickly).

Edit: not the person you asked, but people will run a combo of lethal and less lethal arms for the same reason real SWAT teams do. It's better to take someone alive, but its always preferable to have lethal overwatch. In-game, the LTL weapons gain rapid compliance, lower morale, and generally raise stress fair less than lethal weapons do - but they don't always work well, especially in very complex environments, areas with lots of suspects, or if a gun fight has already broken out. Thus, some of the AI is getting immediate effect on targets with less-lethals, while you have someone ready to bring the hate if plan A doesn't work, or someone pops out of the bathroom with an Uzi while you are cuffing a suspect. Even if you aren't shooting for an S Rank, try mixing in a less-lethal or two and see how it works for your runs, I think you'll be surprised.

[Sergio Ruiz]

Originally posted by SOSDEV_NULL:

I got S rank a few days ago, load up on gas grenades, use the mirror and when you start move in solo and remove the majority of the guards without the team.

That's a really good tip. Thanks to that and other advices I could get the "S"...finally!!!

[Sergio Ruiz]

Originally posted by Zafer:

This game's RNG is very noticeable here. I've encountered an apartment full of 5 suspects before and the rest of the apartments were empty and only 2 in the hallway and 1 in the laundry room. Rest of rooms like I said were empty. So ya, contingency plans like shields, gas, and wands will come in handy. I didn't have a contingency plan and it was the first room I decided to clear so ya that was fun.

Yeah, the randomness of the location of the enemies every time you redo the map is simply marvelous.

[Sergio Ruiz]

Originally posted by Tyrant (My Vision is Augmented):

Originally posted by Sergio Ruiz:

Thanks mate. I use flashbangs instead of smoke grenades. Maybe using smoke will be more effective. I'll try it. Do you use any mod or is just the game itself? By the way, why do you use a combination of no lethal shotgun and non lethal rifle for your squad?

Flashbangs are, by a long shot, the worst grenade type in the game.

Other people have given you great tips, but I'll give some of mine, as someone who can no S rank this mission fairly easily.

The techniques you learn in this mission will serve you well for most of the missions to come. Every room you enter, you should be using a deployable of some sort (grenade, launcher, or shield). You should be wanding under every door and getting an understanding of what is on the other side and to check for traps (other missions will have traps as well going forward).

The long hall ways in this level work to your advantage - as they allow you to lock down huge portions of the map by just having your team in the hall way. control is the name of the game - and with that, door wedges are a massive part of that strategy.

Suspects have two systems that you need to be aware of - stress and morale. Loud noises, like gun shots, C2 charges, flashbangs, etc. will increase stress (and some of them will also lower morale) - which makes suspects more agitated, more likely to make stupid choices, and more likely to be suicidal. Morale is lowered by using less lethals and stunning suspects. If morale is low enough, when you shout at a suspect, they will surrender. This is why CS gas is so powerful in the game - despite having a fairly large radius, and stunning people for much longer, and causing them to cough so you know where they are - it lowers morale without raising the stress of people in nearby rooms, unlike flashbangs and stingers.

My strategy is fairly simple - pick the fire escape entrance, and send your team in first to secure the hall way after checking for traps under the door. With them locking down the hallway, check the center room with the mirror gun - if it has more than 2 people inside, I wedge the doors closed (both sets), and get to work on the rooms, and save the center for last (there is a good chance one will wander out into the hallway via the furthest door, and will make our lives easier later on). One person or less, we deploy the team to take the room.

From here, we work counter clockwise. We mirror gun every door, then tell the team to deploy using smoke and clear. As the mission moves on, and you run out of smokes, switch to stingers and flashes (with fewer people left in the level by that point, flashes are safer to use). After you clear a room, head back out into the hallway to establish dominance, and move to the next room, working counter-clockwise. Check for traps, send the team with a deployable, rinse and repeat.

I typically like to have one teammate running a shield with the FiveSeven (only handgun that remotely tries to get through body armor in the game), and everyone else running... whatever you want. The breaching shotgun is inferior to C2 in most situations, and the launchers aren't used very well by AI teammates. I like heavy, steel armor for this mission, but have done it plenty in light ceramic as well - you just run the risk of dying to random BS more frequently. For S rank, swap the shields with launchers (you'll need the extra grenades), remove all the pistol ammo, and give everyone a pepperball gun, with one guy running a beanbag shotgun. If your aim is good, bring a beanbag gun. If it isn't, use a pepperball gun with a laser and canted aiming. Same strategy, just be mindful of surrendered suspects (tell them to face away from you and crawl to you to keep them from standing back up, or shoot pepperballs next to them, not directly at them) - easy S rank.

Final notes to remember: the final AI suspect in EVERY level will hunt you down. People complained about having to find the last suspect on large levels, so the last AI suspect in every level will suddenly know where you are, and come find you like a maniac. If this suspect is behind you when this happens... you will likely die. Keep this in mind for every level, and plan accordingly - the tactics you employ to prevent dying from the last bad guy will serve you well for every other bad guy on the map, as you work to try to control sectors of fire and negative space, and wedge doors strategically to create choke points.

Also, these guys are running body armor, and most enemies will continue to do so in many future missions. You should be using a rifle with AP rounds. SMGs in this game are awful beyond the first 3 missions (remember - every shot fired raises suspect stress... bullet hoses make your life way harder, have trouble with armor, eat through ammo on the big maps later on, and just don't kill as quickly).

Edit: not the person you asked, but people will run a combo of lethal and less lethal arms for the same reason real SWAT teams do. It's better to take someone alive, but its always preferable to have lethal overwatch. In-game, the LTL weapons gain rapid compliance, lower morale, and generally raise stress fair less than lethal weapons do - but they don't always work well, especially in very complex environments, areas with lots of suspects, or if a gun fight has already broken out. Thus, some of the AI is getting immediate effect on targets with less-lethals, while you have someone ready to bring the hate if plan A doesn't work, or someone pops out of the bathroom with an Uzi while you are cuffing a suspect. Even if you aren't shooting for an S Rank, try mixing in a less-lethal or two and see how it works for your runs, I think you'll be surprised.

Have to say that this is the best tips so far. Thanks for explaining the moral and stress mechanic of this game. They should do a tutorial with those mechanics, I'ts very important to know that. About the IA, I could figure our by myself that if you kill or incapcitate one, the other suspect will know your exact location.

The main problem in this game is that the developers don't seem to care about central mechanics like moral, stress, the use of non lethal weapons or even the requirements to get an "S". I mean, why should I keep using non lethal weapons after completing all the side quest except for "Bring order to chaos". And let's not talk about the intelligence of the enemies. The developers should add another tutorial about the sounds, voices and the effect that those mechanics have over the enemies.