If Non/Less-Lethal is the only way to get "S" Rank...................

[IanH]

Then why is the suspect AI, irrespective of being a terrorist or just a hacker/robber, set to be "MUST KILL SWAT" and why do so many missions have long ranged (50m+) shots where Non-Lethal just physically doesn't work?

After completing the game using firearms and averaging a C+/B- overall I'd say, I've loaded up my entire team and myself as ONLY Non-Lethal and on some missions its possible and I've got a few S Ranks, but on others where the distance between suspect and SWAT is further than room/corridor clearing i.e. anything outside, or if shooting through windows is involved etc then Non-Lethal just doesn't work, making it impossible to get an S rank.

It's a very odd set of requirements to get S if you ask me.

[randomt.guy]

You *can* shoot out the glass with your pistol, and then switch to your less-than-lethal weapon or throw a grenade in the newly created hole. And the pepper ball launchers do have a pretty big range. But I do think I agree it would be better if it were possible but very difficult to get an S rank carrying lethal weapons.

[Quill]

The whole point of S rank is it's meant to be hard

If you can just shoot everyone to get the best rank then what would be the point of arresting suspects outside of objectives?

[Gonzo850]

The challenge doesn't seem very well thought out. Arresting everyone is great for some maps but not a reasonable or fun challenge for other maps. The first level, A Lethal Obsession and End Of The Earth are the only levels where I had a fun time getting S rank. It was a good challenge and it seemed believable.

All the other S ranks that I have gotten forced me to play in cheesy ways and it ruined the fun for me. It almost ruined the game for me. Once I started playing tactical again I started having fun. Maybe some missions should have special scores like timers for S rank instead of arrests.

[randomt.guy]

It's also a question of realism, I just did Elephant and was thinking how unrealistic it would be to have active shooters massacring a group of schoolchildren, and to believe the police would respond by sending in five guys with pepperballs and beanbag shotguns (I know the briefing implies multiple teams, but still) . They should have never removed the multiple map modes, then you could have had different ROEs and scoring methodologies depending on the map mode. Or they could just have different ROEs and scoring based on the theme of the level, so in active shooter situations you can still get an S with lethal weapons and tactics, but in barricaded suspect situations they can't. And multiple modes add to replayability. I wish the modes from the beta were still there, and there was a new mode "high risk warrant', with small house-sized levels with only a few suspects like the first level of SWAT 4.

[IanH]

It also makes it hard if your fellow officers start shooting pistols at suspects that they wouldn't otherwise be able to shoot with non-lethal, meaning you have to remove anything at all which cause "death" but which also removes any chance of your officers defending themselves through windows/glass/doors etc so you tend to lose officers a lot on the bigger maps.

[Mesond]

Originally posted by IanH:

Then why is the suspect AI, irrespective of being a terrorist or just a hacker/robber, set to be "MUST KILL SWAT"

They don't know SWAT is using less then lethal. Even if they did death beats prison and wasting away. etc.

The real challenge is getting S rank without less then lethal weapons. Very difficult on larger maps with more enemies. I prefer exchanging bullets myself. I don't care about grades and vanity. I care about a fight that makes sense and going against the odds. "Grades" don't make things make sense. It's artifical difficulty. If anything it makes the game easier. Don't have to check targets except for "Don't shoot head".

[🆂🆈🅽🅿🅰🆃🅷🆈]

Originally posted by Veldaz:

They don't know SWAT is using less then lethal. Even if they did death beats prison and wasting away. etc.

Most people aren't going to go to jail for life for this ♥♥♥♥. Attempted murder however...

Insert valley of the dolls

[PetDetective512]

You can still avoid penalties by incapacitating enemies if you complied with ROE. I've only ever got S on one map but I have avoided penalties for incapacitating civilians that did not comply with my orders. As long as I secured and reported them I was good. Oh ya, as long as you did not hurt them enough to bleed out and pass away before the mission's end. Guess you can say theres a timer once your first encounter gets incapacitated.

[Chrystal]

I don't mind the current S rank system, as S rank is supposed to represent going above and beyond your expected duty.

The main issue I have is how the ranks scale when more suspects are added.

[Mesond]

Originally posted by 🆂🆈🅽🅿🅰🆃🅷🆈:

Originally posted by Veldaz:

They don't know SWAT is using less then lethal. Even if they did death beats prison and wasting away. etc.

Most people aren't going to go to jail for life for this ♥♥♥♥. Attempted murder however...

Insert valley of the dolls

If real life cops are putting people in jail for less them being armed and holding guns then why wouldn't they get life in jail for shooting at SWAT?

Unless you have a VERY good argument/case (and most people do not have that kind of courage, let alone ability) then SWAT is tossing you in the slammer.

Btw, prisoners make cops more money. That's one of the reason. Tch. Always comes back to greed. No wonder people can't trust the law. There's also the fact cops are trained to lie and use fake evidence. The suspect is legally allowed to see any stated evidence though. In situations like this don't need to make things up. Guns are already there. But other cases, you know.

[🆂🆈🅽🅿🅰🆃🅷🆈]

Originally posted by Veldaz:

If real life cops are putting people in jail for less them being armed and holding guns then why wouldn't they get life in jail for shooting at SWAT?

Brah...that's attempted murder....

[Mesond]

Originally posted by 🆂🆈🅽🅿🅰🆃🅷🆈:

Originally posted by Veldaz:

If real life cops are putting people in jail for less them being armed and holding guns then why wouldn't they get life in jail for shooting at SWAT?

Brah...that's attempted murder....

Without a weapon? You clearly didn't process what I typed properly.

if real life cops are putting people in jai for LESS then being armed...

[🆂🆈🅽🅿🅰🆃🅷🆈]

Originally posted by Veldaz:

[Without a weapon? You clearly didn't process what I typed properly.

if real life cops are putting people in jai for LESS then being armed...

Bro...what are you on...Being in swat scenario is NOT a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ patrol officer finding crack on you...

If you have a gun and swat comes it and you shoot at them....that's attempted murder which EVERY suspect does....

Most suspects are better off just giving up.

No one can arrest the Bolton security for guarding the property (the job they were literally hired for which IS LEGAL) from anyone who's not the law...

[Mesond]

Originally posted by 🆂🆈🅽🅿🅰🆃🅷🆈:

Originally posted by Veldaz:

[Without a weapon? You clearly didn't process what I typed properly.

if real life cops are putting people in jai for LESS then being armed...

Bro...what are you on...Being in swat scenario is NOT a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ patrol officer finding crack on you...

If you have a gun and swat comes it and you shoot at them....that's attempted murder which EVERY suspect does....

Most suspects are better off just giving up.

No one can arrest the Bolton security for guarding the property (the job they were literally hired for which IS LEGAL) from anyone who's not the law...

It's self defence. If a SWAT person in a uniform is ARMED and a suspect fears for their life then shooting at SWAT is a situation what someone fears for their live and safety. Which is why it's self defense. If said suspect is indeed afraid and in a state of panic.

What's attempted murder is aiming and intending to kill when someone is NOT a armed threat. Or if one is armed then it would have to be when the armed person isn't about to shoot at the other person (being prepared to shoot counts as "combat ready").

This is armed conflict. Armed. A-r-m-e-d. Gun to gun. It's not murder. They try to shoot you so you try to defend yourself. That's battleifelds. That's war. That's how fights work. Regardless of what moral high ground people try to claim.

When someone puts a gun at the back of your head from behind and then pulls the trigger when you don't even hold a weapon that is very much murder.

[🆂🆈🅽🅿🅰🆃🅷🆈]

Originally posted by Veldaz:

It's self defence. If a SWAT person in a uniform is ARMED and a suspect fears for their life then shooting at SWAT is a situation what someone fears for their live and safety. Which is why it's self defense. If said suspect is indeed afraid and in a state of panic.

What's attempted murder is aiming and intending to kill when someone is NOT a armed threat. Or if one is armed then it would have to be when the armed person isn't about to shoot at the other person (being prepared to shoot counts as "combat ready").

This is armed conflict. Armed. A-r-m-e-d. Gun to gun. It's not murder. They try to shoot you so you try to defend yourself. That's battleifelds. That's war. That's how fights work. Regardless of what moral high ground people try to claim.

When someone puts a gun at the back of your head from behind and then pulls the trigger when you don't even hold a weapon that is very much murder.

...you have a warped perception of society...

A city street is not a trench...

THIS IS NOT A WAR...

No one officer is putting a GUN to someones head...They won't be an officer much longer after that. Pull the trigger or not

A solider is mean to fight. An officer is meant to protect...Threatening someones life is not protecting them