The lack of non-lethal options is crazy

[Jangowuzhere]

The game highly encourages you to arrest subjects instead of killing them. Playing non-lethally is the only way to get high rankings on missions and it's the only way to maintain the stress levels of your squad.

So why is it that you get like 20 lethal guns and only 3 non-lethal guns to use? 95% of the enemies in this game will not surrender unless you tap them with pepper balls or bean bags. If you carry lethal weapons into a mission, you're destined to get maybe a B ranking at the highest (if you make no mistakes) and a very high chance of your entire squad getting stressed out and resigning.

You're also going into missions at a significant disadvantage if you decide to play non-lethal. The game is very hard to beat in the first place, trying to go through most of these missions with something like bean bag shotguns is basically suicidal. I wish you could encourage enemies to surrender by shooting them in the leg or arm with a lethal gun. Sometimes that works, but most of the time they'll shrug it off and keep shooting you.

[TavanaBnuuy]

引用自 The Infamous Cloaker：

1-3 shots from the Beanbag shotgun and suspects will basically always comply in Practice, can't speak for commander mode.

Also you can make AI forced less lethal by removing all their sidearm ammo.

This is actually incorrect, there seems to be a bug right now where the AI will still pull their sidearm out during firefights - or even before - causing them to just... Sit there and stare at the dude killing them.

Like others have said in this thread, the only real fix I can see being plausible is another look at either their balancing for ranking or a rework of the less-lethal mechanics to make it more AI friendly because, take it from me with about half+ of the S ranks right now and counting, it's not great having to essentially abandon your team because they keep killing suspects/getting themselves killed every firefight (and yes they will still kill with beanbags, it's immensely frustrated me the first few times it happened before I stopped having them join in fights).

There have been a few iterations of the AI from the developers and I still think they keep taking one step forward and one step back, I've just come to start calling suspects 'super humans' at this point because it seems like they're the only competent individuals in this game when it comes to combat.

EDIT: I also agree with the dude talking about giving yourself a *massive* disadvantage when you bring less lethal weaponry, so I'm definitely in the fix up crew.

[VforVeranda]

I personally would be happy enough with them just adding a non-lethal ammo type to some of the pistols. Yes, both rubber and pepper rounds exist for pistols too. Or even better, allow us to use a taser from behind a shield. Right now, shield is mostly lethal.
Yes, leg shots etc.
I do that and it works, sometimes. A pepper round to the forehead would work better and they do not even have to change a lot to implement it.

[Kryll]

The current non-lethal weapons aren't even that great. I'm sure new additions would be just as bad.
Pepper ball guns feel like they only work if it's a group effort, and even then I don't know if it's the pepper balls alone or all the shouting as well. I can't imagine that working for late game missions, especially in more open levels, but apparently it's doable. Just seems very...not fun.
The bean bag shotgun seems fine, but it can still kill, which I'm sure friendly AI will strive for.
Tasers work, but it's one shot, AI can't really use it unless you order them to. Very situational.
I also tested out pepper spray on 3 guys.
The first one covered his eyes, shot at me, and ran.
The second guy covered his eyes, shot at me, and ran.
The third guy covered his eyes...yeah each of these guys got .44 to the stomach, and that's what incapacitated them. Does it actually ever work? I heard it got nerfed too, but just remove it from the game if it's meant to always make enemies shoot you or run.

[IvantheFormidable]

引用自 VforVeranda：

I personally would be happy enough with them just adding a non-lethal ammo type to some of the pistols. Yes, both rubber and pepper rounds exist for pistols too. Or even better, allow us to use a taser from behind a shield. Right now, shield is mostly lethal.

I would also like the option to just use a taser in the pistol slot instead of a tactical device, or at the very least just unequip the pistol. Makes no sense that my guys are carrying pistols out when they don't have any magazines for them. Might stop the AI from swapping to them as well.

[𝒞𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁 Sinner]

I know it's a valid suggestion, and there are probably a few alternatives. But do I find it funny that after all of early access being spent asking for the taser to go to the tactical slot, now people want it back in the pistol slot.

Both isn't necessarily bad as long as it's a one slot or the other. I think the better alternative is a hotkey, and for the SWAT AI to deploy less than lethals autonomously and more freely. They don't really LTL suspects until they enter the shooting phase, and you have to manually tell them to deploy tasers on an individual suspect basis

[Poltergeist]

引用自 VforVeranda：

I personally would be happy enough with them just adding a non-lethal ammo type to some of the pistols. Yes, both rubber and pepper rounds exist for pistols too. Or even better, allow us to use a taser from behind a shield. Right now, shield is mostly lethal.
Yes, leg shots etc.
I do that and it works, sometimes. A pepper round to the forehead would work better and they do not even have to change a lot to implement it.

Im gonna ruin your day by telling you that in builds prior to the Adam update, you could combo shields and Tazer. Obviously you only had the one shot and then reloading would put you at risk but you could do it. I have no idea why they didnt consider thiss side effect of removing tazer as a sidearm

[IvantheFormidable]

引用自 𝒞𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁 Sinner：

I know it's a valid suggestion, and there are probably a few alternatives. But do I find it funny that after all of early access being spent asking for the taser to go to the tactical slot, now people want it back in the pistol slot.

I want the option to have it in the pistol slot (or to simply not take a pistol), because if I'm going non-lethal for S rank runs, then there's no point in having a pistol, and it looks goofy to have to pull out a pistol with the slide locked back and no ammo before my taser, lol.

[TavanaBnuuy]

引用自 IvantheFormidable：

引用自 𝒞𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁 Sinner：

I know it's a valid suggestion, and there are probably a few alternatives. But do I find it funny that after all of early access being spent asking for the taser to go to the tactical slot, now people want it back in the pistol slot.

I want the option to have it in the pistol slot (or to simply not take a pistol), because if I'm going non-lethal for S rank runs, then there's no point in having a pistol, and it looks goofy to have to pull out a pistol with the slide locked back and no ammo before my taser, lol.

Funnily enough it used to be in the sidearm slot, but the topic of their loadout system is another massive conversation so I will leave it at my personal wish that the taser had stayed in the sidearm slot, I knew the second I saw it in the tactical slots I would hate it and sure enough. I get the want for people to put it in a tactical slot but realistically you shouldn't use a sidearm anyways because outside of extremely niche situations you're better off just using your primary.

Side note, less-lethal *does* have utility for a single mag of sidearm ammunition because you can't break windows with beanbags/pepper balls, leaving the only options otherwise being throwing grenades through windows or having suspects shoot them out trying to kill you. Such an example of a niche situations.

[FaZe Cuq]

引用自 Strelok：

引用自 Jangowuzhere：

The game highly encourages you to arrest subjects instead of killing them. Playing non-lethally is the only way to get high rankings on missions and it's the only way to maintain the stress levels of your squad.

So why is it that you get like 20 lethal guns and only 3 non-lethal guns to use? 95% of the enemies in this game will not surrender unless you tap them with pepper balls or bean bags. If you carry lethal weapons into a mission, you're destined to get maybe a B ranking at the highest (if you make no mistakes) and a very high chance of your entire squad getting stressed out and resigning.

You're also going into missions at a significant disadvantage if you decide to play non-lethal. The game is very hard to beat in the first place, trying to go through most of these missions with something like bean bag shotguns is basically suicidal. I wish you could encourage enemies to surrender by shooting them in the leg or arm with a lethal gun. Sometimes that works, but most of the time they'll shrug it off and keep shooting you.

There's no much options to non lethal guns in real world, so the game doesnt have it either.

Even some gadgets like pepper gun are basically not used in missions like these, it's 100% fictional.

It's not that hard achieve rank S in most of levels. But needs some practice.

Good thing this is a video game then, and doesnt need to adhere 100% to the real world.

[ReBootXD]

引用自 Beaming Your Mom in 4k：

引用自 Strelok：

There's no much options to non lethal guns in real world, so the game doesnt have it either.

Even some gadgets like pepper gun are basically not used in missions like these, it's 100% fictional.

It's not that hard achieve rank S in most of levels. But needs some practice.

Good thing this is a video game then, and doesnt need to adhere 100% to the real world.

That’s kinda the point of a sim though, isn’t it, to be realistic? It’s certainly allowed to be a little game-y, but there has to be a line on how game-y it can get before it stops being a sim.

[thegoldfether]

you could definitely call this a cop-out but if you want max rank and play by a specific tactic the best way is to go play cop with some homies, 2 or 3 friends is more effective than your 4 NPC squad mates. yeah doesn't help much if your playing Commander mode...

[PrettyBoy.]

引用自 Jangowuzhere：

The game highly encourages you to arrest subjects instead of killing them. Playing non-lethally is the only way to get high rankings on missions and it's the only way to maintain the stress levels of your squad.

So why is it that you get like 20 lethal guns and only 3 non-lethal guns to use? 95% of the enemies in this game will not surrender unless you tap them with pepper balls or bean bags. If you carry lethal weapons into a mission, you're destined to get maybe a B ranking at the highest (if you make no mistakes) and a very high chance of your entire squad getting stressed out and resigning.

You're also going into missions at a significant disadvantage if you decide to play non-lethal. The game is very hard to beat in the first place, trying to go through most of these missions with something like bean bag shotguns is basically suicidal. I wish you could encourage enemies to surrender by shooting them in the leg or arm with a lethal gun. Sometimes that works, but most of the time they'll shrug it off and keep shooting you.

plain wrong. Just got an A rank with lethal weapons

[Gonzo850]

I was expecting lots of non-lethal variety since there is already so much over the top gear for this SWAT team. Maybe even some experimental cutting edge non-lethal weapons as an easter egg. The game definitely needs more non-lethal options.

引用自 PrettyBoy.：

引用自 Jangowuzhere：

The game highly encourages you to arrest subjects instead of killing them. Playing non-lethally is the only way to get high rankings on missions and it's the only way to maintain the stress levels of your squad.

So why is it that you get like 20 lethal guns and only 3 non-lethal guns to use? 95% of the enemies in this game will not surrender unless you tap them with pepper balls or bean bags. If you carry lethal weapons into a mission, you're destined to get maybe a B ranking at the highest (if you make no mistakes) and a very high chance of your entire squad getting stressed out and resigning.

You're also going into missions at a significant disadvantage if you decide to play non-lethal. The game is very hard to beat in the first place, trying to go through most of these missions with something like bean bag shotguns is basically suicidal. I wish you could encourage enemies to surrender by shooting them in the leg or arm with a lethal gun. Sometimes that works, but most of the time they'll shrug it off and keep shooting you.

plain wrong. Just got an A rank with lethal weapons

Agreed. The way I have fun with the scores in this game is by using lethal weapons and going for A and A+. You can't S rank with lethal weapons but A ranks are achievable with lethal weapons and the most fun to aim for imo. I try to corner and surprise most suspects to get them to surrender but I still kill when I have to.