This game is difficult, sure, but is it unfair?

[Phycorax]

Void is so stubborn on making the AI easier, do we suck? Are Void's playtesters cracked? Idk what is even going on. Greased Palms. Port Hoken, Neon Tomb and Brisa are all miserable experiences.

[halva]

Originally posted by AlmightyMike:

Don't pretend to speak for the majority, all these maps are great fun for me.

You're the minority here mate

[Chiyoko]

I think there should be two options:
- Vanilla AI and settings
- Weaker AI but with increased amount of enemies

Both modes are good for different playstyles.
The first one is for more tactical players, the second one is for a combat role.
I like both, but the second one is more relaxed and funny.

[Sushin]

I understand the difficulty they are going for. It feels like it's tuned for 5 player coop and heavy communication to create ai that is on par with the player.

The problem for me is, it's not as fun when you are just playing solo with AI. It feels like it's not even balanced around solo play at all. I don't hate it, but playing with the no crack mod, the game became A LOT more fun.

What is crazy to me is that this is such a common complaint and the devs seem as if they are stubborn to add difficulty options to the game. Making the current difficulty the default difficulty is crazy. Most players are not expert tactician shooters and will not be compelled to continue playing your game if you skill gate them. Too many friends I know that maybe would have played this with me are not interested in it because of the difficulty.

[Zyr]

It's not unfair just unrealistic, there are some areas where it is unfair, like when enemy shoots through clutter with pinpoint accuracy. When the AI does what it's supposed to, it's fine as long as you aren't doing non lethal. With non lethal the game is completely busted and you basically have to abuse mechanics rather than play the game.

[Keksus]

When the only way to achieve difficulty is to give enemies superhuman reflexes and senses, something went very, very, very wrong. Nobody complains that the game is too hard. People complain that AI is unrealistic, not working correctly and impossible to subdue. You can't play it like a tactical game. You have to play it like Rainbow Six: Siege Offline.

Give me suspects taking hostages. threatening civilians, being unpredictable. Let me feel failure because I didn't manage to save a hostage or because i was unable to subdue a suspect. Give me failure because my attempt at apprehending a suspect went downwards and they shot me.

But failure because I get one-shottet after putting my little toe into a room? RoN was not advertised to be that kind of game.

[Major Fret]

I think a lot of things are really unfair, but I admittedly don't have too many troubles with the Suspect AI itself. Most the time I die it's generally a mistake on my end. It's also rather predictable in what they're going to do, which is shoot, shoot and shoot.

As mentioned by Keksus, the AI has one mode: Suicidal Maniac. I want them to show signs of fear. I want them to panic, flee, take hostages, hesitate, hide etc.

There's a lot of other issues I have with fairness too:
-SWAT AI is rather aggressive. I've even witness them mag-dump a civi who was held as a human shield.
-They also have a nasty habit of overextending, which I've seen kill 3 officers
-A lot of levels expect you to arrest one specific suspect, but that suspect is as aggressive as all the others. Unless you're running full LTL, these objectives are honestly unreasonable and lazy.
-Some levels give suspects a lot of advantages. Postal has a lot of sightlines that the AI flat out abuses.

[Leo]

I've been playing FPS games since I was a kid and I find the game to be VEERY difficult, it's pretty much just like any other shooter but you have to press F before shooting, it's not a police game at all (unless you count spamming flashbangs in every suspect a realistic police tactic). Even with other 4 players all familiar with FPS games we still have to restart matches multiple times.
So yeah, it's unfair AF, people who are not as familiar with FPS games who come seeking a police game would most likely get quickly frustrated and drop it.

[simone.medusa]

I just beat the game playing exclusively solo, and I found it GREAT fun, you just have to play very carefully, positioning your team at every step.

Edit Once you are done with the mission I expected to replay them with different setting, but it seems its not the case, am I overlooking something?

[Quill]

Only map I have trouble on is Greased Palms

I can beat the AI on the Hotel map with only 3 total officers but Greased Palms has something off about it

[Leo]

Originally posted by simone.medusa:

Edit Once you are done with the mission I expected to replay them with different setting, but it seems its not the case, am I overlooking something?

Map variations have been removed in the 1.0.........

[simone.medusa]

Originally posted by Leo:

Originally posted by simone.medusa:

Edit Once you are done with the mission I expected to replay them with different setting, but it seems its not the case, am I overlooking something?

Map variations have been removed in the 1.0.........

:( I dont think it would be very difficult to implement some kind of variations like in the beta, maybe a mod?

[Hell_MINTH]

I think the main disconnect comes down to map design. The T-1000 AI works well on maps with smaller, traditional room-clearing CQB. With proper technique, you can overcome even superhuman AI, and in fact, this sort of AI works best because it severely punishes even small mistakes. I find that appealing, and so do many other tac-shooter enthusiasts. I suspect/believe that a lot of users defending the current AI are looking at the CQB areas and saying it is fine, because it is. You can overcome the superhuman AI ONLY if you use proper tactics (pie, watch your angles, etc). Superhuman AI is needed to punish the smallest mistake. RoN shines here.

The disconnect comes in with maps like Greased Palms, where the large, open area of the mail sorting room causes this sort of AI to 360-no-scope players unfairly, to a point where it is far more frustration than fun (broken). It does not help that maps now gate out other maps.

What needs to happen, IMHO, is that either (A) maps need to be redesigned for smaller CQB-type areas or (B) the AI needs to be split into two distinct AI's, one more-forgiving/easier AI for open areas, and a second AI for room clearing that is the same that we have today. Perhaps another solution would be to fine-tune things like aim and reaction per-map with sliders or something. Maybe a combination of all these solutions? As it stands right now, the game really sucks when you get to a "gate" map.

I was completely frustrated by Greased Palms, to the point that I changed my review of the game (to negative). I did manage to beat it last night, but it took me something on the order of 30-40 tries, alt-f4ing all the way, and in the end, it came down to dumb luck (I didn't get 360-no-scope domed in the packaging area, and my guys only wounded the FISA guy). I love this game on smaller, CQB-oriented maps, but Greased Palms was a frustrating sh!tshow. I could forgive it if I could play some of the better designed maps (like Valley), but holy hell the frustration...

[HappyHour]

Nah stop whining. The ai is good, it would be boring if it were easier. The only big issue for solo are the odd places on the map where the ai teammates room boundaries are not quite right.

[BIG D' williamson from mBHS]

I find the current game play loop incredibly stale. By making the AI laser beam you across the map through walls I end up just taking every room the same way. Controlled breach, multiple nades, and then shouting at them until they comply. Nothing ever really feels dynamic anymore. You either shoot someone 50 times with a nonlethal weapon after having already hit them with a flash bang just so they'll surrender OR you get beamed by someone shooting out of their back running 5x the speed a player can move.

Maybe if it wasn't so buggy it would be fun? I find the AI just really annoying. No feedback on hits, they won't comply sometimes no matter how many guns are pointed at them and how many beanbags they've been hit by it's just a frustratingly boring experience. The worst thing you can do in any shooter is have an enemy that just doesn't react to being hit and runs around at the speed of light through bullets and balls.

The amount of non lethal fire it takes to get someone to give up in insane right now. I feel like it's laughable. Imagine being a cop and you need to fire an entire magazine of pepper ball rounds into one guy's head before he surrenders. It's so comical that I just can't but make fun of it every time I play the game with friends. It's even funnier when he finally surrenders and then immediately pulls out another gun from his ass, which requires another 10+ pepper ball rounds to get him to drop. Then he pulls out a knife and you have to do it again. Like what are they thinking?

The biggest sin imo is that the game doesn't feel like a police sim at all. It feels like it's very buggy all around and requires you to learn very weird rules that are extremely gamey and tied exclusively to RoN. I almost feel like I have to exploit certain flaws with the game itself to get around it's shortcoming, which are mostly centered on the AI being garbage for this type of game.

[Marmarmar34]

I do find it ridiculous how accurate suspects are when they are RUNNING cover to cover. Bro will be sprinting to take cover behind a truck hitting me 3 times with a tec 9