This game forces non lethal very artificially

[shitfaced 196KBit\S DIXCPIXK]

It's understandable why non lethal would be the best way to go in this game, but it shouldn't be the ONLY valid (by the games logic) way to play.
But how, you may ask?
1. Suspect AI has deathwish and is somewhat binary. Unless you affect them with non-lethal gun or utility like CS gas or flashes, they WILL NEVER surrender. A suspect refuses to drop his gun/knife and sees that he is aimed at by 5 swat member in a very close distance - he is guaranteed to shoot/fight back and get predictably swisscheesed. This might be the case for potheads but an average thug would probably surrender even if there's only 1 or 2 guys aiming at him.
2. You get locked out of S rank if EVEN ONE suspect is shot to death/incapacitation. In some instanced this might be fair, as S rank is could probably be interpreted as "absolute ideal execution". But with deathwishy AI, this means that just CANNOT bring any lethal guns, even if it makes sense realistically, like Neon Tomb or Elephant. This forces you to bring non lethal only, or use utility at every single corner and doorway
Score system should probably get a bit of revision. Perhaps let the player get full points even when killing/incapacitating the suspects IF:
1) They held a civilian hostage
2) Tried to pull a fake surrender
3) ARE LITERAL TERRORISTS OR ACTIVE SHOOTERS (but to be fair, i haven't gotten to the Neon Tomb yet, so idk how the game grades incapacitated/dead suspects there)
3. Stress. The system itself isn't exactly a problem, it's the way it takes part in the whole "forced non-lethal" problem.
Some maps are large enough to make it hard to use utility, both in conserving and actual usage, like greased palms, lotta open areas and the inside is essentially a large cluster of rooms.
This means it's harder to affect a suspect with grenades and arrest them without incapacitation, so suspects fight back and die and this makes teammates stressed, which as i mentioned, not a bad thing but the fact that it's hard to realistically get the suspects to surrender makes the mechanic feel too punishing

Another thing about the non-lethal playstyle is that it's also too meta. Beanbag shotty in my experience consistently stuns suspects and makes them compliant in just 1 or 2 shots. Full swat team of beanbaggers and ton of gas and it's almost a guaranteed S rank.
Problem is that it feel rather repetitive and can also get unrealistic when trying to get an S rank or not to make the team stressed on some of the levels like Neon Tomb.

[SkebbZ]

Check out this mod I just released for that:

https://www.nexusmods.com/readyornot/mods/3234

[𝒞𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁 Sinner]

I'm not sure if I've replied to the other S-Rank threads, I think I did, so I'll just repeat here. But I think S rank is fine, and will more than likely stay. Most maps I've found will give you a good score even if you go hard lethal, I think I've gotten a B on Mindjot and a C on Greased, and those were pretty gunshot heavy runs where the only LTLs I used were the taser and flashbang when safe to do. S rank is for those who want the extra challenge and reward that is taking everyone in alive.

Yes, it is unrealistic, and I don't think the devs really mind it. If you want from a realism perspective, most SWAT raids that go to plan end with no bloodshed and no gunshots. Even barricaded incidents from what I've seen end with the suspect coming out on their terms, or committing unalive. You could say in the sense when the guy is arrested, those police get S ranks. From a game view, it is a challenge, and also a carry over from the SWAT series where S rank was from less than lethal gameplay, and in fact even harder considering Vanilla SWAT 4 forces you and your team to be completely uninjured.

[Chrystal]

I have A LOT of problem with the game, but I think the S rank stuff is fine, it's supposed to be awarded for going above and beyond expectations.

A better argument for forcing non-lethal artificially is the commander mode having your team get stressed out from killing suspects.

Like, I did a run and whole team was injured, but did everything non-lethal...return to HQ, everyone is fine...apparently killing in self defense is more stressful and traumatizing than being shot at...it essentially PUNISHES you for using ANY primary that ISN'T less than lethal.

[ReBootXD]

An A+ is a perfect score.

S is for going above and beyond the call of duty, for taking alive people that you were completely within your right to kill, an ideal and unrealistic resolution to a SWAT situation.

S being reserved for purely non-lethal is just how it’s supposed to be.

[SkebbZ]

Yeah, well it get's annoying to run around shooting everyone 3 times in the face with paintball to farm S ranks on all maps :)

[ReBootXD]

Originally posted by SkebbZ:

Yeah, well it get's annoying to run around shooting everyone 3 times in the face with paintball to farm S ranks on all maps :)

It gets annoying to run around shooting everyone 3 times in the chest with an MP5 to farm A's on all maps, you should make a mod that fixes that too lol

[shitfaced 196KBit\S DIXCPIXK]

Originally posted by ReBootXD:

An A+ is a perfect score.

S is for going above and beyond the call of duty, for taking alive people that you were completely within your right to kill, an ideal and unrealistic resolution to a SWAT situation.

S being reserved for purely non-lethal is just how it’s supposed to be.

i kinda wanted to mention this too in my post, just forgot to actually put it there
prob gonna edit it rn

[shitfaced 196KBit\S DIXCPIXK]

Originally posted by ReBootXD:

An A+ is a perfect score.

S is for going above and beyond the call of duty, for taking alive people that you were completely within your right to kill, an ideal and unrealistic resolution to a SWAT situation.

S being reserved for purely non-lethal is just how it’s supposed to be.

Ranking system is not really problematic on it's own, it's just that traditional games handle it in a way, where doing everything perfectly should give you the highest score and usually it doesn't force you to a specific playstyle to get there.
And when you put it into a soup of other weirdly implemented mechanics, it can sometimes feel like a problem

[shitfaced 196KBit\S DIXCPIXK]

Originally posted by 𝒞𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁 Sinner:

I'm not sure if I've replied to the other S-Rank threads, I think I did, so I'll just repeat here. But I think S rank is fine, and will more than likely stay. Most maps I've found will give you a good score even if you go hard lethal, I think I've gotten a B on Mindjot and a C on Greased, and those were pretty gunshot heavy runs where the only LTLs I used were the taser and flashbang when safe to do. S rank is for those who want the extra challenge and reward that is taking everyone in alive.

Yes, it is unrealistic, and I don't think the devs really mind it. If you want from a realism perspective, most SWAT raids that go to plan end with no bloodshed and no gunshots. Even barricaded incidents from what I've seen end with the suspect coming out on their terms, or committing unalive. You could say in the sense when the guy is arrested, those police get S ranks. From a game view, it is a challenge, and also a carry over from the SWAT series where S rank was from less than lethal gameplay, and in fact even harder considering Vanilla SWAT 4 forces you and your team to be completely uninjured.

I feel like most of the 1.0 problems boil down to suspect AI just being too nuts and never making weak and outnumbered suspects give up.

[CaptainLagbeard]

Haven't gotten too deep into the game, but the AI definitely could use some tweaking as the average druggie will go out of their way to fight 5 SWAT officers, and have a good chance of winning.

The game could also possibly use more options for Non/Less Lethal...
Maybe an option for Rubber (or other similar) rounds for Sidearms, so you can at least use the shield to protect yourself from the AI just instantly blasting you when you enter through a door.

[samara.bird]

About the 1st point. 10 cops. 1 ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4SxgHBsGBg&t=0s

[Gunfreak]

Originally posted by Maraluna:

About the 1st point. 10 cops. 1 ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4SxgHBsGBg&t=0s

Law of big numbers.
That it happens once every 10 000 altercations doesn't mean it should happen 3 times in every mission in ready or not.