"The Most Controversial Level in Ready or Not"

[The Programic Knight]

With so many people already harping on the AI issues, I figured the devs needed a break downing shots and wanted I to hear people’s thoughts on The Elephant in the room.
To make sure what I say isn’t going to be misinterpreted, the point I want to make is The Elephant undercuts the seriousness of Active Shooter situations by making the situation run of the mill. I can already see the argument being drafted that this might be the point. The Elephant is just as mundane as every other situation in Ready or Not. Its mundane-iness is a profound commentary on the reality of American policing and mental health…

The issue I take with this argument is I don’t think I WANT to talk about The Elephant. I don’t WANT to know the name is a reference to some film about Columbine. This level should not be the poster child for the game and the community of youtubers holding it on a pedestal with the tag line title above. This level should have been the black sheep, relegated to the corner and discussed in hushed uncomfortable tones, prefaced with difficult subject matter warnings. I think Neon Tomb is much better in this regard.

Speaking of Neon Tomb…the average age of someone that goes clubbing is about 25. Ok, yes I quickly googled that. Not going to act like this statistic came from years of research, but this is a fair number. Do you know the average age of a community college attendant? Its also, about 25- usually a little younger. Maybe you can start to see the problem with this concept.
If you don’t, let me outline your average scenario in Ready or Not involving an uncooperative civilian. You shout at them to put their hands up, they don’t.
“I’m scared”
“They’re still out there”
“Go get them not me”
“Please don’t leave me here”
So you bash them in the face. You tase them. You bean bag them. You pepper spray them. Hell, maybe you throw a stinger at their feet. They do what you say, you probably say “finally” and move on with more important things. Does this change at all for The Elephant? Of course not. Its still 6 foot grown adults acting like toddlers in the face of a juggernaut telling them to get down on the ground. Maybe this distinction is so important to me because I’m in the age bracket for this mission, so its effectiveness of “they’re killing kids man!” is lost.

Now please, re-imagine this scenario with the level I think a lot of people imagined when they saw those stereotypical high school lockers and desks in the teaser trailer. You breach the room, there’s a high school kid obviously shorter than you standing there. You shout at them to put their hands up, they don’t.
“I’m scared”
“They’re still out there”
“Go get them not me”
“Please don’t leave me here”
…I’m well aware there will always be people just “playing a game”. That after a few run throughs of the mission, you won’t even think about firing a beanbag at an actual kid. But writing this out, I don’t think I could do anything drastic other than continuing to beg them to listen on my first play-through. That’s the level I wanted. I wanted something difficult to problem solve, something that didn’t make me feel great playing. Something I didn’t say “Now to run that again and get a better score” right after accidentally shooting a civilian in a cross fire.
The Hotel map was good at this for me back when the game had it. I remember having a very serious talk with some friends on the nature of the work we were currently pretending to do, and how just horrible it felt hearing the blood-soaked carpet squish under my boot. I was really hoping The Elephant and even levels like 23 Megabytes would be better at starting dialogues about the subject matter and scenarios police work in. Instead, I got The Elephant.

“Entry Team, negotiations have failed with the suspect” when there were never any negotiations. There is no police presence outside, no ambulances, no frantic crowd. Not even active shooting. Just silence. The chilling fear of roaming a deserted school with AR fire echoing down the vacant halls isn’t there. Instead, this situation is just like any other. Suspects intermixed with civilians with the same behaviors as any other mission. If anything, its frustrating when they do shoot a civilian because of how rare they do it.
Despite the shooters being students as shown in the evidence lockers back at the station, no 911 call alludes to it being a friend or someone they passed in the halls (even if it’s the WRONG person, no one even makes assumptions). Despite having CCTV cameras, we don’t know how many shooters there are or what they look like. (This is an issue with many other missions by the way). The 911 operators don’t even inform callers (when there would be many) they already know about the situation and help is coming. No dispatch call from either of the on sight officers as well.

Oh, don’t forget about the bomb. The bomb sends me and is the main culprit of undercutting the seriousness of it all. If there was ever an active shooter who has done this please let me know, but to me it sounds absolutely wild that a fed up on life active shooter would waste time learning and building a bomb when they already know they will be shooting everyone with a gun they have easy access to. I was very annoyed when first running the level and suddenly TOC mentions a timer almost being up. No mention it at the start of the level, in any 911 call, or the brief. Just surprise bomb threat that you’ll only know is there if you decided to check your phone game during an active shooter situation. (Again, I would imagine this would have been spotted on CCTV). I wasn’t horrified, I wasn’t pausing to ready myself for the level’s horrors, I was just annoyed.

I wanted this level to be difficult to talk about. I wanted VOID to make situations in Ready or Not like that of their initial teaser trailer, officers finding a lifeless child they couldn’t save or breaching into the worst known situation imaginable and having to fight their own emotions to get the job done. I WANTED to feel those emotions and struggles with this game. As I conclude and say that this level is incredibly Milk toast, doesn’t actually say much artistically about the situation its portraying, and lacks the vitriol I would expect from this scenario…I mean this from someone that wanted “the most controversial level in Ready or Not” to be that. Controversial. I wanted dialogues. I wanted to see more discussions about all the situations Ready or Not portrays and less conversations about the broken AI. I'm not looking for distasteful edge, which I'd argue The Elephant currently achieves. With the games title, I was genuinely hoping to Not be Ready for certain subject matters.

I get it. VOID is here to make money. We are here to play games. Seeing what the level is now? I should have known we never would have gotten anything more than a cool tagline to generate clicks. We were never going to get this game: https://youtu.be/Gd139Nin33M?t=36

If you disagree with my little write up on the levels effectiveness please, say so. Maybe I’m being too harsh, or my view on the matter is warped. If you feel this level is genuinely shocking or difficult to stomach, then let’s have some of that dialogue, even if its just debating its effectiveness and not its seriousness.

Cheers

[Reapums]

The Programic Knight님이 먼저 게시:

Its funny that you mention this because back in early access there were active shooter scenarios available to us where they did actively hunt civilians and you had to be fast. My suspicion is this was deemed unfun because of the game's scoring system counting those civilian casualties heavily against you.

Artistically I wouldn't mind a level like Elephant presenting a cryptic score (except for S ranking) of something like "you did the best you could" instead of a letter grade, but then again I fully understand thats a bit too on the nose and not a great gameplay mechanic for replaying things.

This is my first time using the formatting functions so hopefully that quoted right...

I was wondering the same thing since the AI there actually felt specifically made for maps like this one. Or if you did the bomb threat version of the map, the suspects would guard the explosives in a bid to defend them and damage/destroy the building.

I find that the controversy and shock of the situation is incredibly undercut by the imposed "Pacing" of the level. I already knew there were bombs on the level, so I just rushed in searching for them. Once I got blown up a couple times searching for them, I suddenly stopped caring about the setting and just wanted to complete the level and move on. To the point of the original poster, it just comes off as another boring ass mission.

[MrBananaGrabber]

I think the mission would have been more fun if they had put some funny easter eggs in, references to The Breakfast Club, or Saved By the Bell, etc.

[The Programic Knight]

Reggae Sauce님이 먼저 게시:

If something is being hyped up to be the most controversial thing on the planet, then even the most horrifying gore, shock etc is underwhelming because of the image we've created in our minds is always worse than whatever is being hyped up.
Void have never really shocked me with anything, they pull their punches on multiple occasions. You can't just show me suffering and expect me to care, you need a bit of backstory and context.
Ready Or Not is pretty shallow in its depictions of ultra violence and suffering. Mature, yes, but shallow.
Having a school shooting level doesn't mean s h i t, if you can't even do it effectively. Void does serious subjects "fine" but not exceptionally.

I was going to argue that I don't think I was hyped for the level, but I was. Shame on me. Separate from that though I don't think I needed gore or shock. I just needed something that broke the mold of the standard gameplay loop because as I described, this feels no different from any other level. The briefing talks about how the briefer's kid went here and the implication is the seriousness of this, but at the end of the day its another Los Suenos impromptu shoot house.

I'm curious to know where else you think they pull punches, I briefly mentioned 23 megabytes, and for me that's the only other pulled punch that stands out. I think a dead mom and hostage brother of a snapped streamer is a LOT more interesting than an illegal crypto farm.

Back in EA, you could shoot the ODing child on Twisted Nerve. Now you can't- not that I gleefully did this. I did it once, said "oh, ♥♥♥♥" and never did it again. That was the VOID I expected and why I had some pretty high hopes for some of the situations the game advertised to display. If they were "ok" with me accidentally harming a child during my house clear of a meth lab, what sick world was awaiting me? Of course now in 1.0 you can't even point a weapon at the child in the bed, or the twin she has on the gas station.

This is super important to me, because where in EA i showed restraint and hesitation clearing that Meth House's bedroom, now I know I can C2, stinger, and spray wildly and the child will remain unharmed. I guess I need to test that though before I assume it to be true.

[The Programic Knight]

Major Fret님이 먼저 게시:

What's most disappointing about The Elephant is VOID had the formula for an Active Shooter game mode. I know because it was the first thing I praised about the game. No game has ever made me feel so helpless despite being decked out in the latest in tactical equipment.

There's no panic or sense of urgency in The Elephant.

Bingo. There's another thread somewhere on the discussions that mentions (this is my own words) the feeling of loading into The Elephant isn't "I have to stop the threat! I have to save these people!" Its "I gotta get my multi tool out! i gotta cut wires!" The focus becomes an arbitrary game over timer, not the arguably more serious active shooter.

I wanted that dread and helplessness same as you, instead I'm playing a scuffed CS Source Office match.

[theBaronReborn]

I imagine later down the line they will expand the maps to have alternate scenarios again, because obviously the Elephant isn't the active shooter map we all expected. It needed to be that game mode for it to fit, as of now it just feels like the other terrorist attack levels.

As for it being a college and not a grade school, i imagine this is for 2 reasons:
1- not having to model a bunch of child npc's and get child voice lines
2- i think some countries still outright ban the sale of games where you can kill children, and others would force an Adults Only rating onto the game for it, which is also a death sentence for sales

[The Programic Knight]

BitsOfSkin님이 먼저 게시:

All right, I guess I'm going to have to write an entire essay here to cover some points...

Honestly, thank you. I know it took me a lot longer than I care to admit drafting up my thoughts, so I appreciate taking the time to engage with something that could have easily been written off as another random voice on the internet.

BitsOfSkin님이 먼저 게시:

Go watch the videos on Youtube breaking down the Active Shooter situation in Nashville, the few videos from Uvalde, and what little video exists from other Active Shooter incidents.
After the initial panic, such places usually get an eerie quiet over them.
Hell, look at the incident in Texas where the cop spent a good five minutes running around before encountering the shooter and ending the threat; some distant gunfire is heard, but other than the obvious adrenaline racing through the beat cop's system and his ragged breathing, and his yelling at a few stray civvies who haven't gotten the Hell outta dodge, there's little action until the actual shooting.

Yes! Excellent point. You are right, and as you call out later I am rather used to the Hollywood esq sensationalism of these events. That said, the one I think that I was remembering most fondly while thinking of why Elephant does not work is Nashville. Revisting the body cam you can at least see more elements of what I described. Listen to how many alarms are blaring. Eventually you start hearing muffled gunfire which gets louder as the officers get closer and closer.

But again, you are right. Most events are shrouded in deafening silence and few shots once police are ready to move, but I still think Elephant is too quiet. It just needs...something. Even 23 Megabytes has gunfire from outside- and thats just a gaming set up. That's personal preference though.

BitsOfSkin님이 먼저 게시:

As to your talk about how the survivors act; it's rather realistic, because they act the way they should : like people completely shellshocked by the horrific ♥♥♥♥ they've just witnessed.
Some people run for cover and then GTFO at the earliest opportunity, others ball up, break down, sit and stare in disbelief, or just hide.
A rare few will go towards the action, but they usually die pointlessly, unless they're very well trained.

As for the bombs, shooter rationale etc., read on below.

Saint Pablo님이 먼저 게시:

It felt really silly seeing the suspects simply walk around lazily, sometimes straight up ignoring civilians.

Look at Columbine, Parkland; Harris and Klebold spared random people, Cruz even told someone he was OK with "You’d better get out of here, things are gonna start getting messy" and sent the guy off.
As monstrous as they are, they aren't super-humans, and they will get winded, they will suffer from the post adrenaline rush comedown that's often paired with anxiety, confusion, headaches, extreme fatigue...
Which explains the ambling behavior of the shooters

Yes but we never actually see that behavior. This is just excusing the current model of the Suspect AI. I know that sounds like I'm picking an argument from thin air, but as an animation artist this really bugs me and is a global RoN problem.
We don't see characters crying. We don't see characters hiding under desks. We don't see the shooters saying things like "You better leave" and pointing for someone to go or taking a knee to catch their breath or vomit. Even the school resource officer is missing his firearm and outside of telling you he wants to help, has the same useless civvie animations. He doesn't dart down the hall and holds his hands up saying "I'm LEO! Don't shoot!" Before the AI hotfix that I have yet to play, that's what I wanted to dissect. TL;DR there aren't enough animation states that would not only make the AI seem less artificial, but also make the godlike reaction times a lot more tolerable.

I digress. My point here is while I agree and concede that an active shooter will lose steam or play sick games or even regret and not want to continue, we don't actually see these distinct behaviors in the game. Its the same animations and behaviors as any other suspect in any other mission. Same with the Civilians.

BitsOfSkin님이 먼저 게시:

You're applying a (Hollywood-esque) rationale to a situation that isn't rational.
I think the real issue here is the disconnect between the reality of how these shootings break down after the first shots have been fired versus people's expectations.
By the time Police arrive, the shooting itself is usually mostly over.
After all "when every second counts, Police are minutes away at best".
Organizing a S.W.A.T. team takes longer still.
The developers did make one mistake though; they expected players to understand that realism isn't necessarily what makes for the most exciting, compelling gameplay and storytelling. But IMHO, it IS a realistic scenario... and thus doomed to be boring to most.

As I said earlier, I agree. here you are absolutely right. My "ideal" level and foundation for this analysis is the typical hollywood take. I don't understand Elephant, and maybe i'm not supposed to. Its not rational. No situation like this ever is. I guess I just wish I walked away with more than just a sense of frustration, but as you outlined quite well maybe it currently serves better as the strong silent level rather than falling to a sensational ideal of what it should or could be.

I think part of my concern now is...did they intend for it to be like that? We already can see there has to be missing story dialogue as evident by the port. I wouldn't put it past VOID to forget to add music and possible dialogue that subtracts from it all.

Thanks again for taking the time, cheers dude.

[𝒞𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁 Sinner]

BitsOfSkin님이 먼저 게시:

Expectations can't be met when the devs aim for any level of Realism, where player expectations will vastly differ from how these things usually play out.

But IMHO, it IS a realistic scenario... and thus doomed to be boring to most.

I think these lines summarize the map the best. Everyone had different expectations, and ultimately most players have a wildly unrealistic fantasy of law enforcement reactions to mass shootings in general. Some wanted there to be children, some wanted to rush in and get there before the shooting started, and some wanted Neon Tomb but on a school setting.

The reality is, the map is realistic. Bombs and all. The events in these games have happened many times, and likely will continue to happen in the US unfortunately. Elephant was designed with some assistance from the sound team behind the Elephant (2003), that is why there is no music, because no music could really capture what the map was going for or capture it in a respectful way. My only change would have been to make the audio more intense, such as a fire alarm or general alarm, to really mess with the players audio surroundings.

But I am happy with the map, even though in reality it will not land for many players sadly. I don't think it's entirely down to the map, but really just reality. It's not hard to see, and there was lots of feedback given during EA, that players are desensitized to mass shootings. The map that most strongly affected players is Voll House, probably will be for a while. That's not because it's that graphic, it really isn't, it's because people are more sensitive to child exploitation than they are to mass shootings. I wouldn't say one trumps the other, but it really shows in certain ways.

As for the technical aspects of the map, they most likely took feedback to hear from early access. Active shooter was probably the least favorite mode among players for a few reasons. It is a very short and quick mode, and for a lot of players it wasn't fun due to how RNG it was. Whether you played for score or not. You had to worry about the shooters spawn and distance to your spawn, how many civs spawned nearby, and how many shooters. I think now works pretty good, there is still that RNG, but there is also from my understanding and playing a timer before they start killing. So you have times where the civs will scream out for help because the shooter is right there, but you have the time and leeway to get there and stop them.

I think the bombs also work. I certainly was slowed down dealing with bombs because the AI couldn't, but also because the map was so new and jarring to me that I knew that if I went off to hunt for the AI, I would not remember where the bomb was. And with there being multiple sometimes, I would run into issues like my first where I didn't have time to defuse. It feels more MP focused with how players can split up, but it was certainly a fun challenge, a bit uncanny as well. The campus certainly feels very similar to the universities we have in my state. Just having graduated, I also felt like many of the things you see are what really in campuses. The fair, the lunch room, etc.

[Wilihey]

youtubers etc just praise this game and soyface really hard at it completely overshadowing any type of issues or bad game design, the pdf file missions were a bit weird and interesting to see but it wasnt that crazy, the night club tho its very impressive, i think its weird they made that map after a shooting in a nightclub irl had just happened but whatever game is game

the university map is extremely underwelming and with those horrible bombs you have to find its a hassle to play through, ye sure a school shooting scenario is great because they arent holding back much, people want to make public friendly products so it sells as much as possible and going against that is a good thing, but come on its not delivered in a good way

[Nyet Diem]

Frankly, I think most people are desensitized to entertainment depictions of the mass shooting MO. I mean, most of us are probably thinking back to the "Remember, no Russian" COD level & the shock that came along with it (mainly from being on the wrong side of it).

But there are some things to remember. 1st, Columbine did have failed IED's in the parking lot. 2nd, victim time in an active killer situation is approximately 1 victim per 15 seconds. 3rd, many active killers (Parkland, for example) simply stop & wander off after a few minutes, regardless of how many potential victims are left. If memory serves, they arrested him in a Subway down the street an hour or two later.

Most of us imagine something much closer to the Mumbai 2008 incident when we think of these things; but, in reality, they're much more like the Christian School incident earlier this year. A dozen officers responding to one perpetrator.

Realism is nearly impossible for a game that relies on sales to survive. A single bad guy per mission won't cut it for the Keyboard Kommandos out there.

This subject was a portion of a course I used to teach about being aware & prepared if the situation did arise, how would you respond & why? And the reason most of us are shocked IRL when these things occur vs being nearly bored in this game when it happens, is our control over the situation & ability to repeat and analyze it. When your first chance to respond is possibly the last, you will act quite differently.

If you were given one try at this map & then never saw it again, couldn't replay it at all (your score stands for eternity) your response would be a little different. If you played & failed, then had some real consequences (like your account is locked out permanently) we would approach it much differently. But consistency and repeatability is expected, so the subject matter is relegated to desensitization instead of stress inoculation.

The only reasonable way to approach this would be to limit players access to the levels by some means. Maybe by offering a random selection of 3 missions each time you approach the briefing table. Allowing missions beyond the initially unlocked handful to become unlocked only when you achieve a certain score on levels or unlocked by completed the optional "Soft" objectives which provide intel leading to other connected missions.

I'm rambling at this point, but I think that's the real issue. The lack of dialogue stems from a lack of connection to this depiction of a horrifying event. Amateurs practice until they get it right, Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong. We can afford to practice until we get the right score, once.

[Metal Izanagi]

I don't particularly get what makes Elephant so much more "controversial" than say, Neon Tomb which is in itself a sobering reminder of a mass shooting and terror attack with a hell of a lot more impact on a community that already faces plenty of hatred.

[Major Fret]

𝒞𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁 Sinner님이 먼저 게시:

As for the technical aspects of the map, they most likely took feedback to hear from early access. Active shooter was probably the least favorite mode among players for a few reasons. It is a very short and quick mode, and for a lot of players it wasn't fun due to how RNG it was. Whether you played for score or not. You had to worry about the shooters spawn and distance to your spawn, how many civs spawned nearby, and how many shooters. I think now works pretty good, there is still that RNG, but there is also from my understanding and playing a timer before they start killing. So you have times where the civs will scream out for help because the shooter is right there, but you have the time and leeway to get there and stop them.

So we deleted Active Shooter because people didn't get to feel like tactical superheroes? Again this misses the point of what made Active Shooter a great mode. It made you feel helpless at times. Sometimes there was nothing you could do to prevent casualties. It showed you could be the most well-trained, well equipped person in the world and still be helpless in a desperate situation.

It would've been perfectly fine to have one active shooterlevel in the campaign, and would've added some variety to the campaign. Instead The Elephant plays like any other level.

[StrangeAK47]

Major Fret님이 먼저 게시:

It would've been perfectly fine to have one active shooterlevel in the campaign, and would've added some variety to the campaign. Instead The Elephant plays like any other level.

this, it's just the studio shying away from the topic when its a issue that swat is sent to deal with, the game should have definitely featured a shooter level.
i can understand them making it adults instead of children as it invites sicko's into the community and would mean a much harsher rating and probably pressure from political groups.

[Wilihey]

Metal Izanagi님이 먼저 게시:

I don't particularly get what makes Elephant so much more "controversial" than say, Neon Tomb which is in itself a sobering reminder of a mass shooting and terror attack with a hell of a lot more impact on a community that already faces plenty of hatred.

its still a fairly hot topic nowdays especially with medias, they always blame video games for violence in teenagers instead of you know the horrible system forced upon them, at any possible chance the medias will deflect any responsibility and blame it on video games, video games overall is still not taken seriously as a medium compared to cinema or music etc, but thats another conversation

[Kilo Wyatt]

If shooters were being remotely "Good" the mission would be walking through an already bombed and dead campus wing while you just tag them, not to mention shootings almost never go quiet as planned for obvious reasons, look up elliot rodger's plan who was gonna steal his dad's suv and go on a rampage in girl dorms but instead just killed his two room mates and shoot at random people on the street

[Major Fret]

Kilo Wyatt님이 먼저 게시:

If shooters were being remotely "Good" the mission would be walking through an already bombed and dead campus wing while you just tag them, not to mention shootings almost never go quiet as planned for obvious reasons, look up elliot rodger's plan who was gonna steal his dad's suv and go on a rampage in girl dorms but instead just killed his two room mates and shoot at random people on the street

There's plenty of creative ways around this issue.

-You could say that the SWAT team was conveniently training nearby
-You could have the player go in alone or with just one fellow AI officer and that they were nearby in the area
-You had to fill in for one of the resource officers.
EDIT:
-The shooter/s were reported before they arrived on scene by a concerned family member