My own AI team killed me for unintentional collateral

[Penith]

Just played Ides of March, unfortunately hit a civilian kneeling in front of a suspect shooting at me and got instantly shot and killed by everyone of my squad members the moment I hit the civilian. First time I've ever had this happening - never happend in early access.

In the real world all four would have been found guilty of murder.

I'm pretty sure this is not supposed to happen - it's not like I was executing a cuffed suspect, it was without any doubt collateral in the middle of a firefight which should have been just a score penalty and not an extrajudicial death sentence with instant execution by my team.

Needs to be fixed.

[CiosInflacji]

Really? I shot 2 civilians today, one in Relapse and one in Hide and Seek (I was a bit trigger happy, I admit) and my team didn't care. Maybe because I used the No Crack for AI mod?

[Beanis11]

I got lit up on ides of march for wallbanging a civilian by accident

[3 Ducks In a Man Suit]

In SWAT 4 the friendly AI would defend themselves, but they didn't kill the player for accidentally (or intentionally) killing civilians or handcuffed suspects. This is just one more on the pile of things that are worse about 1.0

[Saint Skeleton]

please let me just have options, if I want to be punished allow me ... but if I want to go in guns blazing with this combat style, why not simply allow that as an option, its literally switching a few 1's to 0's, which some mods have already done, I dont want to have to mod my game though

[Saint Skeleton]

also, I shot a civ, and within a frame the ai has already killed me, as if they were already aiming at me or something ... thats just a major buzzkill

[about7seals]

I literally just finished clearing the suspects on relapse after the new update, which took a while because the enemy AI loves to wallbang with 100% accuracy, and I shot a SUSPECT not even a civilian but a suspect that was seemingly drawing a gun after surrendering. I get the "Bring order to chaos" prompt and I immediately got shot by my remaining team for shooting him.

Don't get me wrong I love this game but damn I don't think I'll be playing with AI again.

[I like Chop Goblins.]

The game can't just... you know, dock points off your total score at the end?
Too reasonable to do that?

[Starshina Smirnov]

Just happened to me, I accidentally shot a civilian who was obscured behind a suspect on Sins of the Father and my team instantly killed me. At first I didn't even realise what had happened.

[Jug]

it's a bad mechanic, very poorly implemented.

In case of unintentional collaterals, the protocol is to maintain leadership until the mission is complete, unless the leader steps down voluntarily. Then, he'll be prosecuted ex post facto.

In case of intentional executions, the team should order the leader to lay down his arms. He'll then be relieved from command and arrested. If, and only if he refuses, shooting him becomes an option.

To punish murder with murder is ridiculous. No operative should be ordered to murder anyone. A combat kill isn't a murder. Nor is a death penalty.

To punish an unintentional murder with an intentional one is even more ridiculous.

It baffles me this is even a thing in this game.

[Roy]

Автор сообщения: Jug

it's a bad mechanic, very poorly implemented.

In case of unintentional collaterals, the protocol is to maintain leadership until the mission is complete, unless the leader steps down voluntarily. Then, he'll be prosecuted ex post facto.

In case of intentional executions, the team should order the leader to lay down his arms. He'll then be relieved from command and arrested. If, and only if he refuses, shooting him becomes an option.

To punish murder with murder is ridiculous. No operative should be ordered to murder anyone. A combat kill isn't a murder. Nor is a death penalty.

To punish an unintentional murder with an intentional one is even more ridiculous.

It baffles me this is even a thing in this game.

I think the mechanic is intended for when players go ballistic and explode as many heads with their shotgun as they possibly can (which a LOT of gamers will do at some point).

It's a cool mechanic to give the AI some more life to them, but it's overtuned and will now have SWAT execute their leader for mistakes.

It was amazing in Halo or Star wars: republic commando when you pushed your limits with the friendly AI and they retaliated when you obviously became a traitor.
Then again they wouldn't just murder you for accidentally downing a friendly or being sloppy, it just needs tweaking here.

[Jug]

i can think of a dozen better ways to enforce the right gameplay.
The game could simply lock the player in a lo-ready state similar to the police station at the second civvie killed, or the first execution. The rest, like being arrested / relieved from command, prosecuted, etc is just perfumery. Would add to immersion, but it's not crucial. Now, I think it's important to not show absolute disregard for human life, honor, the frigging law, etc, as this mechanic does.

[I like Chop Goblins.]

If the game is supposed to be a simulation, shouldn't there be an AI Internal Affairs who investigates you and miraculously find you did nothing wrong?

[Roy]

Автор сообщения: Jug

i can think of a dozen better ways to enforce the right gameplay.
The game could simply lock the player in a lo-ready state similar to the police station at the second civvie killed, or the first execution. The rest, like being arrested / relieved from command, prosecuted, etc is just perfumery. Would add to immersion, but it's not crucial. Now, I think it's important to not show absolute disregard for human life, honor, the frigging law, etc, as this mechanic does.

It's not about "enforcing the right gameplay", it's about having the AI react to the player going on a massacre.

I'd hope there's no record of this happening but i'm pretty sure if someone on a SWAT team, lead or not, would start blowing cuffed civilians' heads off one by one they would use lethal force to put an end to it.

Sure, IRL they'd yell at them to stop and put their gun down before shooting, maybe try to subdue them or tackle them, but that's WAY too much effort to program for such a "hidden" feature.

It's simply a neat mechanic that should only trigger when the player performs the ultimate gamer move and becomes a serial killer themselves.
It's the same type of commodity as when you stare at an NPC too long in Halo and they tell you you're creeping them out etc.
Just some reactions to the player going out of their way to do abnormal things.

[Jug]

Автор сообщения: Roy

It's simply a neat mechanic that should only trigger when the player performs the ultimate gamer move and becomes a serial killer themselves.
It's the same type of commodity as when you stare at an NPC too long in Halo and they tell you you're creeping them out etc.
Just some reactions to the player going out of their way to do abnormal things.

I see your point, but i disagree. IMO it's very important, even crucial, to keep the legality of the way SWAT behaves, in a SWAT game.

[Roy]

Автор сообщения: Jug

Автор сообщения: Roy

It's simply a neat mechanic that should only trigger when the player performs the ultimate gamer move and becomes a serial killer themselves.
It's the same type of commodity as when you stare at an NPC too long in Halo and they tell you you're creeping them out etc.
Just some reactions to the player going out of their way to do abnormal things.

I see your point, but i disagree. IMO it's very important, even crucial, to keep the legality of the way SWAT behaves, in a SWAT game.

Yeah alright then i guess we'll just agree to disagree, but i do see your point as well and you're not wrong.