This game has been made unbearable to play

[CFMitch]

I don't know what the devs did to AI, but they ruined the little immersion they had. And before you arm chair SWAT nuggets say go slower, use optiwand, blah blah blah, you're not seeing the larger issue. AI is running at a super small swat team, sideways, hitting every shot full auto, aiming like john wick on steroids. Plus optiwand is not a real thing, I don't use it, because I try to be real to what happens in life. The snake cameras are much longer and used predominately for barricaded subjects.

As someone who has 16 years of tactical experience, 7 within an assault team, these are my observations.

TEAM
1 - Why are these friendly AI closing doors when stacking on them? Never in a million years do you close a door you can see into the next room.
2 - Why are team members openly crossing open thresholds??? Stupidest thing ever. Majority of the team deaths are because of this.
3 - Rather than holding security, they all collapse and rush to handcuff a dead person and collect evidence, allotting the enemy to Leroy Jenkins into our room.
4 - When a suspect has surrendered, no one is covering the suspect.
5 - Why is this mental health thing with teams so fragile? A tactical team in a busy city may execute several warrants in a single day. These guys constantly go through the ringer and see a psych doctor annually, or after a major incident. The unrealistic setting of going into CRISIS or stressed after each mission is dumb AF. I just gave up, let a guy leave, get a new guy. Only a matter of time until enemy AI on steroids with john wick blood slaughter them anyway.
5 - The team is way under strength. You have 4 assaulters and a team lead.... in what world would this remotely be a possibility? Increase the size of the team.
6 - Why does your team constantly daisy chain rooms? They are over extending and weakening the overall security. STOP IT!!!!!


ENEMY
1 - Too aggressive. Maybe a trained person would know how to flank, advance, fire and move onto highly trained tactical officers, but not every stupid AI in this game would. 9/10 criminals either run, hide, surrender. Stop making AI always trying to advance and kill the swat. Reality would have them do the opposite. It's quite intimidating having full grown men in tac gear aiming a bunch of rifles at your face.
2 - These AI must be made of kevlar. I'm having to shoot these morons 3-5 times with .300 JHP at point blank ranges. That body would be jello at these ranges with this weapon.
3 - The accuracy of AI is too high. Moving sideways while on full auto hitting every round on target is fked up. Not realistic the slightest. Add in the accurate aiming through walls, shooting and hitting a target accurately even though they don't have line of sight, unreal.
4 - Too many fake surrenders. Its almost guaranteed each criminal in wanting a death wish in this game.
5 - Reaction times. These beep boop beep john wicks have no delay, no developing target acquisition, nothing. They just use their internal radar, lock target and start blasting. Super unrealistic and one of the biggest issues with this game.

GAME
1 - Have friendly uniformed NPC AI act as perimeter/ cordon security. This would be more realistic and add to your tactical security. If a perp is running out a backdoor, the uniformed officers would be challenging them and making that arrest/ engaging with the suspect.
2 - Why is it when you yell for the perp to surrender, etc, your rifle is dipping and all over the place? The amount of times I'm challenging the target and all of a sudden john wick emerges and I can't get rounds on target because my rifle is like a damn bouncy castle from yelling at someone.
3 - Increase the distance of the challenge being heard. A civilian who is 15ft away, with a tac team pointing rifles at them is more likely than not going to listen. Not according to this game though. Have to muzzle check or taze them to get compliance.
4 - Why so few slots for grenades? The belts are designed in a way to have plenty. The chest rigs, the same. I ran with 4 on my rig and 4 on my belt along the back for the guy behind me to use. No reason the game can't do something similar. Always had 3 pistol mags and 8 rifle mags.
5 - Increase weapon slots, choosing between only a light or laser is dumb AF.
6 - The mission writing is atrocious. Any tac team would have received a detailed brief on number of perps, weapons, motive, background info, etc. Saying you're doing a hostage rescue on a dude who kidnapped mom, but facing off against a dozen guys is garbage and a cheap goat to avoid doing work. By the time tac arrives, the uniformed officers have gathered enough intel, along with the actual intel unit and investigative bureau that a rough picture of the situation can be formed.
7 - Who ever your tactical advisor is, fire them... Clearly they aren't helping the devs or the devs aren't listening.

I understand there's a balance of immersion and entertainment, but for god sake at least make an effort at some immersion. You want a swat game? Then be real to the day to day realities of swat. 90% of swat work is boring as hell, I get it. But make the 10% that this game focuses on, somewhat realistic to the real world and how people behave, etc.

[Dr. Sinclair]

Originally posted by Rudie5735:

Allied AI is fine to me, it's not brain dead anymore and actually does its job now. I only wished a few tweaks, like realizing less-lethal ammo does not go through glass, or that suspects that you need to aprehend cannot be lethally shot. There's room for improvement, but overall it's better than before where I'd just order them to stay away.

allied AI is definitely not okay in it's current state. atleast half of my casualties are the AI running across a room past an *UNSECURE OPEN HALLWAY* to cuff a civilian or grab a random pistol on the ground thus getting instantly shot at from the same hallway/door they just ran across on their own with 0 backup, quarter of my casualties are over-extending when clearing, pushing past doors and unsecure areas and rushing into the next room/area without being told to do so thus getting banged from the back since we didnt actually secure any of those 30 doors they just ran past, and the last quarter is just general stupidity, be it not watching surrendering suspects, standing with their back against an unsecure staircase... ect
a VERY easy solution to, atleast the room clearing, would be if they waited for your command before pushing further - just automatically queue it up for you and you can execute or change their orders before they get themselves killed
they also have inhuman reaction time and will go trigger happy on a fake surrendering suspect within 0.0000001s of them reaching for a weapon...

[bben]

its mostly the wallbanging that kinda puts me off
its totally random and u can get wallbanged out of nowhere

they still havent solved the problem - the ragdoll is completely behind cover when they can somehow see u by one or 2 pixels and thereby shoot thru cover when they shouldnt

idk how AI see ♥♥♥♥ tbh but i dont think its their eyes in my 2 yrs of exp fighting them
the tip of their hat may have formed an imaginary connection with u somehow and so its perfectly fine for them to blast u with their uzi bc u r now "seen" and "located"

its been there since day 1 as far as i can remember - dec 2021 its been 2 yrs ffs

[Rally]

3 - The accuracy of AI is too high. Moving sideways while on full auto hitting every round on target is ♥♥♥♥ up. Not realistic the slightest. Add in the accurate aiming through walls, shooting and hitting a target accurately even though they don't have line of sight, unreal.

So far this is the biggest problem in the game. Enemies will drop you with a single headshot across a room before i can even raise my gun. Last game I played I got mowed down behind cover by an enemy two rooms away. It isn't challenging, it's cheap deaths. Am I expected to breach and bang every single room? Why do enemy 9mm rounds rip through SWAT armor like butter but they're walking off mags of 5.56?

[Rally]

Also there is still an issue with "unauthorized force". If an enemy aims his gun at me but hasnt shot yet, that isn't "unauthorized"

[Ultra-Zoid]

I've also suffered getting hit through walls consistently. It's aggravating to say the least.
But yes, I can't get a score higher than a B right now when I used to get A+ in EA because suspects don't bloody give up. No matter what, they'll fight me to the death. Flashbang breaches work, generally, but other than that it's a straight firefight.

[Dr. Sinclair]

Originally posted by Rally:

Also there is still an issue with "unauthorized force". If an enemy aims his gun at me but hasnt shot yet, that isn't "unauthorized"

tbf its really just missing the relaxed ROE we used to have in active shooter scenarios
when you're dealing with terrorists shooting up a hospital you shouldnt have to wait for them to shoot first... but my team still stands there shouting until they start getting mowed by a machinegun

[Dr. Sinclair]

Originally posted by N*rd:

Dunno what youre talking about - that enemy AI is easy to deal with.
I wish they were a little bit more like in the first days of early access - one mistake and youre dead.

Friendly AI is much better now but i have to agree to all of your points there tho

have you tried commander mode?
because it seems very specific to commander mode that the suspect AI has the settings of former SAS members

it shouldnt be one mistake and you're dead - most of these idiots wouldnt be able to hit the broadside of a barn, let alone cutting trough heavy steel body armor with pistol caliber bullets.
it would be more understandable in the tougher missions with rifle caliber automatic weapons, but armor exists for a reason

[SkebbZ]

Working on mitigating some of these issues here atm

https://www.nexusmods.com/readyornot/mods/3169?tab=description

[CMDR Dark_Marshal]

Originally posted by Gaius Fupius:

everything you just said is 100 percent true, lol imagine any police department sending only 5 swat into a situation like Ides of march where the suspects are all military veterans with ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ M249s and door traps

I was thinking this EXACT thing.

im still stuck on it because I go in thinking that it "Should" be the same (even though really it should always change) and yet the AI team swat think that running in pointing guns yet still getting railed is a good idea?? to still do the same thing?

also I cant find the 40mm launcher anywhere ????
did they remove it?

[Dr. Sinclair]

Originally posted by CMDR Dark_Marshal:

also I cant find the 40mm launcher anywhere ????
did they remove it?

it occupies the same equipment slot as mirror guns/breaching shotguns/ect
check there

[Rudie5735]

Originally posted by Dr. Sinclair:

Originally posted by Rudie5735:

Allied AI is fine to me, it's not brain dead anymore and actually does its job now. I only wished a few tweaks, like realizing less-lethal ammo does not go through glass, or that suspects that you need to aprehend cannot be lethally shot. There's room for improvement, but overall it's better than before where I'd just order them to stay away.

allied AI is definitely not okay in it's current state. atleast half of my casualties are the AI running across a room past an *UNSECURE OPEN HALLWAY* to cuff a civilian or grab a random pistol on the ground thus getting instantly shot at from the same hallway/door they just ran across on their own with 0 backup, quarter of my casualties are over-extending when clearing, pushing past doors and unsecure areas and rushing into the next room/area without being told to do so thus getting banged from the back since we didnt actually secure any of those 30 doors they just ran past, and the last quarter is just general stupidity, be it not watching surrendering suspects, standing with their back against an unsecure staircase... ect
a VERY easy solution to, atleast the room clearing, would be if they waited for your command before pushing further - just automatically queue it up for you and you can execute or change their orders before they get themselves killed
they also have inhuman reaction time and will go trigger happy on a fake surrendering suspect within 0.0000001s of them reaching for a weapon...

Well I don't know how you play but I don't have such an issue, my biggest issue with AI is when it DOESN'T listen when given command. That's it, maybe you haven't got the picture of how they work yet idk man. It's kinda tedious I'll give you that, you have to micromanage a lot, but if you give an order to clear a room accross a 3 corridors then yeah... Your fault. When they clear a corridor they don't bother with doors, I usually cover them when they do that, and also they advance as you approach them, they'll stay put if you're too far away. Those are still AIs not Humans with better competences. So far, "move and clear" works fine, they secure downed suspects when all is cleared - or just don't and I have to order a "search room" for them to do that. But yeah you can queue command, it's just long to do.

[CMDR Dark_Marshal]

Originally posted by Dr. Sinclair:

Originally posted by CMDR Dark_Marshal:

also I cant find the 40mm launcher anywhere ????
did they remove it?

it occupies the same equipment slot as mirror guns/breaching shotguns/ect
check there

i looked there because I thought it would be there (makes sense to be there) but its not there?

personally I dont use it, I give it to AI to use (Sometimes I give em all one and let them go nuts on the large open map lol)

But the fact its not there Is more concerning than just not having it

[Dr. Sinclair]

Originally posted by Rudie5735:

Originally posted by Dr. Sinclair:

allied AI is definitely not okay in it's current state. atleast half of my casualties are the AI running across a room past an *UNSECURE OPEN HALLWAY* to cuff a civilian or grab a random pistol on the ground thus getting instantly shot at from the same hallway/door they just ran across on their own with 0 backup, quarter of my casualties are over-extending when clearing, pushing past doors and unsecure areas and rushing into the next room/area without being told to do so thus getting banged from the back since we didnt actually secure any of those 30 doors they just ran past, and the last quarter is just general stupidity, be it not watching surrendering suspects, standing with their back against an unsecure staircase... ect
a VERY easy solution to, atleast the room clearing, would be if they waited for your command before pushing further - just automatically queue it up for you and you can execute or change their orders before they get themselves killed
they also have inhuman reaction time and will go trigger happy on a fake surrendering suspect within 0.0000001s of them reaching for a weapon...

Well I don't know how you play but I don't have such an issue, my biggest issue with AI is when it DOESN'T listen when given command. That's it, maybe you haven't got the picture of how they work yet idk man. It's kinda tedious I'll give you that, you have to micromanage a lot, but if you give an order to clear a room accross a 3 corridors then yeah... Your fault. When they clear a corridor they don't bother with doors, I usually cover them when they do that, and also they advance as you approach them, they'll stay put if you're too far away. Those are still AIs not Humans with better competences. So far, "move and clear" works fine, they secure downed suspects when all is cleared - or just don't and I have to order a "search room" for them to do that. But yeah you can queue command, it's just long to do.

it is not about how i play, you're most likely just not paying attention to it or havent told them to clear sections where this happens. AI will sometimes stack up after clearing and then begin clearing the next section on their own, even tho they were not given orders to do so and the area wasnt fully secured yet - too many angles where enemies could come from - this is not down to playstyle, it is completely out of my control
them running off to cuff suspects and collect weapons is also out of my control
them standing with their back to a staircase after clearing is also out of my control
i take it you have not reached the bigger levels yet?
because running off to secure things in a MASSIVE OPEN AREA with when we're dealing with elite terrorists armed with automatic weapons while an enemy can pop up from 10 different angles is the last thing they should be doing - they should hold in cover and wait for orders.
i love getting "your fault" comments because the "realistic" AI cannot do the most basic room clearing...

[Chubzdoomer]

Originally posted by Gaius Fupius:

everything you just said is 100 percent true, lol imagine any police department sending only 5 swat into a situation like Ides of march where the suspects are all military veterans with ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ M249s and door traps

SWAT 4 sent you into a hospital overrun with heavily-armed mercenaries. At the end of the day, this is a video game. The reason you're so severely outgunned/outnumbered is because it provides a great challenge to try and overcome.

[Fang]

Well, it's not like there have been dozens of youtube videos and a thousand times that amount worth of feedback on the AI. Clearly there was no more room for improvement here.