Entry Points

[🪐Space_Owl🦉™]

Who thought it was a good idea to force the player to select an entry point BEFORE they can inspect the level map and see the location of those entries? Is this really 1.0?

Edit:

https://youtu.be/TNst6DwW_VU?si=loY-Bz4xLi2FdFMI&t=2762

For reference because it seems many have 0 reading comprehension skills. Look at that beauty, you select a level, you get to see the map AND decide the entry points before committing to the mission.

How's the process in RoR atm? That's right kiddos, you COMMIT to an entry point BEFORE you even get a chance to see the level map. I'm not gonna repeat myself again if you can't comprehend how nonsensical the concept is.

[Jackerino]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dr. Sinclair:

to be fair, if a 2005 game that inspired this game can do it better... then there is a question of where do you draw the line in the sand when you start ignoring bad design and just waving it off like it isnt a big deal
the standards of modern gaming have fallen low enough already

Well, I didn't really wave it away, is the thing. I tried pointing in the direction of where I think the issue actually lies in my comment, but to better clarify, I feel like the bad design element is more-so that the mission selection is in it's own entirely separate menu instead of in the taccom tablet.

On that note as well, when I say that I think the issue is being blown way out of proportion, I mean it in the sense that it's being treated like it's a catastrophic flaw in design that is extremely obtuse, when in reality, the only real issue is that it's due to mission select being in an entirely separate location as everything else when it really doesn't have to be.

So, the very reasonable and rational criticism would be, "I would like it if I could see the map either at the same time as or before I set my infiltration point, since right now it's quite clunky to have to check things in the taccom and then go back to mission select", but that's not what they said. They said the typical gamer thing of, "LOOK!!! Isn't this so STUPID?? Why did they DO THIS?? SWAT 4 IS A MASTERPIECE, LOOK AT THIS!", and it's not very constructive. I notice a lot of gamers are like this when giving feedback and it kinda sucks.

[Dr. Sinclair]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Jackerino:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dr. Sinclair:

to be fair, if a 2005 game that inspired this game can do it better... then there is a question of where do you draw the line in the sand when you start ignoring bad design and just waving it off like it isnt a big deal
the standards of modern gaming have fallen low enough already

Well, I didn't really wave it away, is the thing. I tried pointing in the direction of where I think the issue actually lies in my comment, but to better clarify, I feel like the bad design element is more-so that the mission selection is in it's own entirely separate menu instead of in the taccom tablet.

On that note as well, when I say that I think the issue is being blown way out of proportion, I mean it in the sense that it's being treated like it's a catastrophic flaw in design that is extremely obtuse, when in reality, the only real issue is that it's due to mission select being in an entirely separate location as everything else when it really doesn't have to be.

So, the very reasonable and rational criticism would be, "I would like it if I could see the map either at the same time as or before I set my infiltration point, since right now it's quite clunky to have to check things in the taccom and then go back to mission select", but that's not what they said. They said the typical gamer thing of, "LOOK!!! Isn't this so STUPID?? Why did they DO THIS?? SWAT 4 IS A MASTERPIECE, LOOK AT THIS!", and it's not very constructive. I notice a lot of gamers are like this when giving feedback and it kinda sucks.

well to be fair, the entire bottom section of OP was only added because people are incapable of reading. the first sentence wasnt really blowing it out of proportion that badly

[Jackerino]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dr. Sinclair:

well to be fair, the entire bottom section of OP was only added because people are incapable of reading. the first sentence wasnt really blowing it out of proportion that badly

That's fair. I'm just a big proponent for solution-based feedback, I always hate when gamers just whine about things and insult stuff instead of, like, proposing solutions or being constructive about their issues.

[🪐Space_Owl🦉™]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Jackerino:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Dr. Sinclair:

well to be fair, the entire bottom section of OP was only added because people are incapable of reading. the first sentence wasnt really blowing it out of proportion that badly

That's fair. I'm just a big proponent for solution-based feedback, I always hate when gamers just whine about things and insult stuff instead of, like, proposing solutions or being constructive about their issues.

Yeah, sadly I had to put that bottom section that may seem to blow the issue out of proportion simply because people are incapable of reading. The entry point issues I have with, are not that severe compared to other issues the game has and the overall scope but it is counterintuitive/poor UX and as others have stated before, how come a game from 2 decades ago did better.

If I created this post isn't to ♥♥♥♥ on the game, it's because I want the game to be as good as can be. I've been waiting for a title like this for years and years, but sometimes tough love is needed.

[Jackerino]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από 🪐Space_Owl🦉™:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Jackerino:

That's fair. I'm just a big proponent for solution-based feedback, I always hate when gamers just whine about things and insult stuff instead of, like, proposing solutions or being constructive about their issues.

Yeah, sadly I had to put that bottom section that may seem to blow the issue out of proportion simply because people are incapable of reading. The entry point issues I have with, are not that severe compared to other issues the game has and the overall scope but it is counterintuitive/poor UX and as others have stated before, how come a game from 2 decades ago did better.

If I created this post isn't to ♥♥♥♥ on the game, it's because I want the game to be as good as can be. I've been waiting for a title like this for years and years, but sometimes tough love is needed.

I get you. Your annoyance is totally valid and although the issue you're having never necessarily bothered me, I did notice how it's weird to pick an entry point you don't know about when selecting the mission. That's just weirdly jank when all the information in regards to what's actually in the mission is nowhere to be seen on mission select.

[coolman552]

you can select entry points?? where? i didnt even think it was possible i just thought you'd have to shimmy to the other ones after checking out the map and already being in the conflict zone, first time i played the gas station map one of the suspects almost took my head off because i wanted to enter from the other entrance (the one that doesnt have the pumps in front of) and it was covered by these huge ass windows

[Jackerino]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από coolman552:

you can select entry points?? where? i didnt even think it was possible i just thought you'd have to shimmy to the other ones after checking out the map and already being in the conflict zone, first time i played the gas station map one of the suspects almost took my head off because i wanted to enter from the other entrance (the one that doesnt have the pumps in front of) and it was covered by these huge ass windows

Later on in the campaign, some maps allow you to pick different entry points. It'll give you a list of entry points and you can pick which one you want to do.

It doesn't matter which one you pick however, because you always go to the first one. So... It's bugged right now.

[Major Issue]

Entry points still don't work even after hotfix.
IDES of March doesn't matter which one I select, I always start at fire exit.
Ends of the Earth is now fixed, if you select street you start at street now. I've started at the beach yesterday.

[[EXDr] Frank]

So I am assuming that I must be an idiot, but what is the point of all those markings/orders when you open up the map screen and press on the little star thing in the bottom right? I cannot select or place them, so I assume that they must not be orders? So what are they? Also, why do the first 3 maps (all I have tried so far) have zero entry points?

[Major Issue]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Frank:

So I am assuming that I must be an idiot, but what is the point of all those markings/orders when you open up the map screen and press on the little star thing in the bottom right? I cannot select or place them, so I assume that they must not be orders? So what are they? Also, why do the first 3 maps (all I have tried so far) have zero entry points?

Only few maps have selectable entry points. Don't know purpose for the orders placing in the map. Looks like in old Rainbow six but it's probably only for coop to cooperate with other swat players. The game is really unpolished and undercooked in many ways now.

[[EXDr] Frank]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Major Issue:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από he game is really unpolished and undercooked in many ways now. [/quote:

Yea, it really feels that way. Which sucks, because in many ways it is an awesome game. Any idea if the DEVs are serious about finishing it?

[smile.]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από 🪐Space_Owl🦉™:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από strangerfi:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Ya Boi Alex:

You can view every map on the tablet. Press and hold tab, after selecting the map icon in the bottom left you can view a layout of the building. each entry point is labeled and you can even make a plan on how you want to approach it. Wile in a mission you can then view the plan by repeating the same process.

Can you view the level map and the entry points BEFORE selecting them? No? That's what I thought and that's my point....

You have no point. You literally just missed a feature.

You have a map where you can see the entry points, windows, doors etc.
If you cant read maps thats on you, not the game.

Even if you wouldnt have that specific feature, just load up the map one or two times to see them and you are fine.

[Chubzdoomer]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από 🌺smile.🌺:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από 🪐Space_Owl🦉™:

Can you view the level map and the entry points BEFORE selecting them? No? That's what I thought and that's my point....

You have no point. You literally just missed a feature.

You have a map where you can see the entry points, windows, doors etc.
If you cant read maps thats on you, not the game.

Even if you wouldnt have that specific feature, just load up the map one or two times to see them and you are fine.

He does have a point, it's just some people aren't grasping it.

When you complete the latest mission and return to the police HQ, the first thing you see when you pull up the mission list is the brand new mission you just unlocked. When you select that mission, you're then immediately asked which entry point you would like to use despite not yet knowing ANYTHING about the layout of the map or the mission itself (unless, obviously, you've played it before).

You CAN pull up your tablet to check the mission's map, but only AFTER you've already selected an entry point. This is the key piece of information that's going right over some peoples' heads.

It's an "order of operations" problem. Players shouldn't be selecting an entry point without first seeing a detailed layout of the location.

Is it a serious issue? No, because obviously you can just choose an entry point at random, then consult the map on your tablet, then pull up the mission selection again and re-select the entry point you would actually like to use based on the knowledge you gained from the tablet/map/briefing. But it's still downright bad UI/game design all the same.