How does this hold up to swat4?

[Horror Pigeon]

Does this game equal or surpass swat4 in sp gameplay?
I've played some swat4 on gog and found the teammate
ai to be sometimes incompetent and sometimes decent

[krusom]

Swat4 stills the better game atm.

Might change in the future, but i don´t expect this game to reach or pass SWATs quaility any more.

[Napoleonic S]

Originally posted by krusom:

Swat4 stills the better game atm.

Might change in the future, but i don´t expect this game to reach or pass SWATs quaility any more.

why is that? care to elaborate on why this game is inferior and will never be equal?

[krusom]

Yeah, sure.

First of all i really want this game to be a good game and wish the devs all the best, so no hating here. I understand it´s in early access too, but after the last months i got the impression that the devs started a project they can´t handle (yet?) in terms of the scale of all the single aspects of the game to work and fit together. And it seems like they are setting the priorities in contrast to the wishes of the playerbase. I absolutely understand that some systems rely on each other and therefore need to be fixed before tweaking the next one.

So:

Obviously they care about worldbuildung, good.
They put a lot of work in the modelling, 3d-scanning and stuff. Good.
They tweak stuff most players dont see at the first view. Good.

This is not the priority for many players as far as i experienced it. I know that an Level-Designer will not be coding the AI or do a 3D model in most cases cause they are specialists to a certain level and may not easily be replaced or scheduled to other specialists work.

But:

Most players i had contact with left the game because the AI is so unpredictable (not in a good way) and they want to play a game like this to be able to arrest suspects rather than shoot on sight. Playing this way isn´t that fun (imo) cause the AI is totally able to go full berserk and slaughter your whole team if the AI director just decides to.

The fact that this isn´t fixed since the game is in early access makes me question what could possibly be so difficult in fixing the AI.

Im no professional programmer but i did some coding in the past and of course i dont know the architecture of the AI but for my impression the AI in this game can only function if there is some kind of morale value which either can be increased or decreased based on players actions till compliance. I struggle to understand that is this complicated to lower this values to instantly boost the experience of a big part of the playerbase. I guess it could be doable to add some levels of difficulty, which adds or lowers the general morale stats of the enemies, so mostly the whole community could be satisfied with some minor tweaks.

I know i´m speculating here, and i understand that it can be more difficult if you have a more advanced AI than in SWAT4, but the fact that modders obviously did some real improvements makes me wonder whats the issue.

I played after the last updates for some hours only to find out its not in a state where it´s fun for me and i got the impression the project is just too big for the team at the moment and they maybe will not be able to finish it before the money runs out due to the slow updates.

I wish all the best to the devs and the game but my hope and hype for this game is gone (at least for the moment).



Sorry for the wall of text, but you asked for it :)

edit:
So SWAT4 has all of it together, the worldbuilding, AI can be managed and is controllable but. So it´s (at least for the moment) the better experience, at least in my opinion.

[Barzenak]

This is a game of stealth and taking your time to save people but it becomes just a blood bath as the AI is way too aggressive and the scales are way too tipped on losing each mission. You almost have to kill everyone without time to even tell them to put their hands up or doing any of the core mechanics because it is like fighting John Wick. Guys run upstairs, mid run one shot you even while you are trying to be slow and hidden. It is a shame...game looks good but it is not fun right now.

[Napoleonic S]

So it sounds like it's now a Delta force or navy seal game rather than a SWAT game...

[Waldherz]

Originally posted by Napoleonic S:

So it sounds like it's now a Delta force or navy seal game rather than a SWAT game...

There is a distinct lack of water anywhere close to the locations and no naval vessels in sight tho xd

[Grinch [HUN]]

Swat 4 can be modded quite easily. Look for SEF mod on a place called moddb.

Modded RoN is easily the best tactical shooter right now, even if the friendly AI has some issues. You can RP whatever special forces with mods, but I prefer to be LSPD for lore and realism sake. It's early access game, but it will surpass Swat 4 if the Devs won't abandon it (which is not gonna happen I think).

[Scrim]

Originally posted by Napoleonic S:

So it sounds like it's now a Delta force or navy seal game rather than a SWAT game...

More like "severely underfunded and understaffed police force in a collapsing and increasingly violent society" simulator. It's also not nearly as difficult as the guy above is saying. You just need to play it like your life is on the line, pre-aiming, slowly peeking around corners. Slow = smooth, smooth = fast.

[Zuao]

I'm enjoying it, so far. Has it's issues like the AI being too agressive and stubborn making the "yell for compliance" command something you press right before a headshot so as you can say "welp, at least I tried" and not get a penalty for use of force. On the other hand, the friendly AI is happy to absorb a lethal dose of lead withouth returning a single shot. And damn is the AI an expert at firing 7.62NATO on full auto and somehow nailing almost all of those shots. Top tier muzzle control.

However, the AI isn't much different from SWAT 4. They are less likely to do some things, but they can do all that SWAT4/SEF could do and then a little bit more. It's more an issue of balancing from what I'm seeing.

Enemies are supposed to pose some resistance to arrest, but today I flashbanged a guy and started punching him into compliance only for him to turn around and try to machinegun me. You are supposed to prep a room properly for maximum arrests, however the grenades seem to be way less effective in RoN than in SWAT 4.

Overall, I'd say the game has a lot of potential. If you wanna trust the devs to create something amazing, seems like they're delivering. Otherwise, if you just wanted a bit more of Swat 4, I'd say you got it.

[Bruce Springsteen fan]

They expect you to follow ROE on AI that can kill you 0.2 seconds long before you're able to tell them to drop your weapon

[Ittrix]

Originally posted by Red Savarin:

Originally posted by Napoleonic S:

So it sounds like it's now a Delta force or navy seal game rather than a SWAT game...

More like "severely underfunded and understaffed police force in a collapsing and increasingly violent society" simulator. It's also not nearly as difficult as the guy above is saying. You just need to play it like your life is on the line, pre-aiming, slowly peeking around corners. Slow = smooth, smooth = fast.

It is and it isn't. Sometimes you turn a corner and the AI spends a second being shocked, enabling you plenty of time if you did things tactically. That full second is often spent debating if the guy is gonna drop his weapon or not. Never does, but, I have to wonder. It feels great and I wish more encounters ran like that when you do things proper.

Sometimes you turn a corner, shout for compliance, and then get headshot before the guy is even fully turned around.

As a result most players follow up with shooting immediately after a shout for compliance. 20 hours in, and I've never actually seen a guy comply unless he was flashed, tazed, or shot with a non-lethal. Doesn't matter if you catch him alone, if you snuck up behind him- nothing. Always turns, always shoots.

[Jug]

IMO Swat4 can provide a more complete experience. All systems are polished and complete, including Elite Force and now First Responders, the mod-suites that corrected and improved a lot of crucial aspects of the game. That said, in terms of combat and CQB, modded RoN provides a more realistic challenge. Yes, it's still under work, a lot of stuff is missing but I cannot think of a game that provides better firefights than modded RoN (pay attention: MODDED RoN).

I believe that in a realistic scenario, you won't find the temporal room some players think they need to shout for compliance. Those operations are chaotic and you may have to face criminals who won't give you any chances at all. IMO, the game-friendly suspects in Swat4, although making sense most of the time, end up showing that's 'just a game' after all.

I like and support the fact that the suspects in RoN have no respect whatsoever for that.

But, if you put it all into perspective, the polished systems, missions, and general gameplay loop in Swat4 still make it superior overall.

[mflyer]

Originally posted by krusom:

Swat4 stills the better game atm.

Might change in the future, but i don´t expect this game to reach or pass SWATs quaility any more.

they both good games but ready or not is harder to play in single player in multiplayer yes its great to play good players who are team players

[DzikiDzwon]

I don't know when was the last time everyone played SWAT 4, but AI wasn't exactly it's strongest point either. Later missions pretty much all ended in a blood bath because there were many well armed and armored suspects with crazy fast reaction time. Ready or Not is a lot like SWAT 4 in this regard, but it also has larger maps with larger amount of enemies to deal with, so I guess it's a bit harder when playing solo. Definitely a good game already though.