Why no light and laser?

[PhanTom(FETT)]

Why isn't there the ability to use a light and a laser? That's not realistic at all.

[Athena]

+1

[Bolovo]

Originally posted by PhanTom(FETT):

Why isn't there the ability to use a light and a laser? That's not realistic at all.

you mean at the same time? if so, why would you do that?

[yeehaw]

no he means why isn't there an attachment that allows you to switch from light to laser from a button press. some flashlights do have a laser built in that you can switch to

[𝒞𝒶𝓈𝓊𝒶𝓁 Sinner]

I guess I'll give my 2 cents?

I'm not sure I've seen the devs comment on laser/flashlight combos, hard to keep track of a lot of things. From my personal view, I'm neutral. It's addition kind of invalidates individual lasers/flashlights, but the flexibility would be nice.

[LtBlackbird]

has not been addressed up to this date, but i assume it is still on the table and not ruled out.

[PhanTom(FETT)]

Can any dev's comment?

[LtBlackbird]

A lot of stuff has not been addressed probably in order to minimize promises that cannot be delivered. Does not mean its not coming, just not confirmed nor denied for the sake of not making promises. So I think this one falls under that.

[nom]

Originally posted by Saint Pablo:

I've always questioned this as Ground Branch does it effortlessly. It even comes with options on the fly for visible/IR lasers.

and, voila, it's one of the most boring tactical fps games to ever release

[nom]

Originally posted by Saint Pablo:

Originally posted by nom2609:

and, voila, it's one of the most boring tactical fps games to ever release

How would having both a light and laser make things boring? That's such a clown response lol

Alright, I should probably clarify instead of just saying that and then screwing off.

Ground Branch does have total customization freedom, which means that restrictions are basically thrown out the window in service to this freedom. While this seems like a plus at first, this just hurts the game. If you don't give players a reason to think about what they equip, they'll just bring an well-rounded loadout suited for every situation that doesn't need to change. Instead of justifying the addition of a laser-light combo (including the ability to switch between ir/visible on the fly) with the idea that it's "realistic", we should discuss about how the addition of such an item would affect a key aspect of RoN: loadout planning.

Right now, we have three overbarrel attachments: a visible laser, an IR laser, and a flashlight. The current dilemma is that if you bring one, you simply don't get the benefits of the other gadgets and are restricted to the benefits of the one you choose. For example, bringing a flashlight means that you can see in dark places at the expense of enemies being able to see this device; the alternative is that you can bring a laser to negate the detection risk, but you may have a hard time seeing in the dark unless you bring night vision, which has its own drawbacks. If we were to just add a laser-light combo, you would be able to negate detection risk and be able to see in all scenarios.

This all seems obvious at first thought, but it's still really important to consider. Restrictions make players think, which is the ultimate goal of a tactical shooter. While a laser-light combo wouldn't be the most significant thing to affect planning, it does set a precedent where planning and thought (the fun part of the game) are second to """realism""".

[LtBlackbird]

Originally posted by Saint Pablo:

Originally posted by nom2609:

Alright, I should probably clarify instead of just saying that and then screwing off.

Ground Branch does have total customization freedom, which means that restrictions are basically thrown out the window in service to this freedom. While this seems like a plus at first, this just hurts the game. If you don't give players a reason to think about what they equip, they'll just bring an well-rounded loadout suited for every situation that doesn't need to change. Instead of justifying the addition of a laser-light combo (including the ability to switch between ir/visible on the fly) with the idea that it's "realistic", we should discuss about how the addition of such an item would affect a key aspect of RoN: loadout planning.

Right now, we have three overbarrel attachments: a visible laser, an IR laser, and a flashlight. The current dilemma is that if you bring one, you simply don't get the benefits of the other gadgets and are restricted to the benefits of the one you choose. For example, bringing a flashlight means that you can see in dark places at the expense of enemies being able to see this device; the alternative is that you can bring a laser to negate the detection risk, but you may have a hard time seeing in the dark unless you bring night vision, which has its own drawbacks. If we were to just add a laser-light combo, you would be able to negate detection risk and be able to see all scenarios.

This all seems obvious at first thought, but it's still really important to consider. Restrictions make players think, which is the ultimate goal of a tactical shooter. While a laser-light combo wouldn't be the most significant thing to affect planning, it does set a precedent where planning and thought (the fun part of the game) are second to """realism""".

Ah,I understand now. The realism to gameplay ratio is a hard aspect to balance. I do agree that it would lead to players having an OP loadout and thus negating any challenges in gameplay.

I still look forward to a modded alternative when modders figure it out, which would not affect the vanilla experience if players choose to play the way void intended. Can have both the vanilla experience and modded.

[PhanTom(FETT)]

Originally posted by LtBlackbird:

Originally posted by Saint Pablo:

Ah,I understand now. The realism to gameplay ratio is a hard aspect to balance. I do agree that it would lead to players having an OP loadout and thus negating any challenges in gameplay.

I still look forward to a modded alternative when modders figure it out, which would not affect the vanilla experience if players choose to play the way void intended. Can have both the vanilla experience and modded.

That is fair, It just totally ruins the "realistic" aspect of this game for me and makes it... I do not know how to describe it... not as fun. It takes out all of the real elements that I get to employ at work, and come come home and nerd out and emulate.

many if not most tactical units around the globe run a light and laser now-of-days.

[Pepper]

Originally posted by nom2609:

Originally posted by Saint Pablo:

How would having both a light and laser make things boring? That's such a clown response lol

Alright, I should probably clarify instead of just saying that and then screwing off.

Ground Branch does have total customization freedom, which means that restrictions are basically thrown out the window in service to this freedom. While this seems like a plus at first, this just hurts the game. If you don't give players a reason to think about what they equip, they'll just bring an well-rounded loadout suited for every situation that doesn't need to change. Instead of justifying the addition of a laser-light combo (including the ability to switch between ir/visible on the fly) with the idea that it's "realistic", we should discuss about how the addition of such an item would affect a key aspect of RoN: loadout planning.

Right now, we have three overbarrel attachments: a visible laser, an IR laser, and a flashlight. The current dilemma is that if you bring one, you simply don't get the benefits of the other gadgets and are restricted to the benefits of the one you choose. For example, bringing a flashlight means that you can see in dark places at the expense of enemies being able to see this device; the alternative is that you can bring a laser to negate the detection risk, but you may have a hard time seeing in the dark unless you bring night vision, which has its own drawbacks. If we were to just add a laser-light combo, you would be able to negate detection risk and be able to see all scenarios.

This all seems obvious at first thought, but it's still really important to consider. Restrictions make players think, which is the ultimate goal of a tactical shooter. While a laser-light combo wouldn't be the most significant thing to affect planning, it does set a precedent where planning and thought (the fun part of the game) are second to """realism""".

Counterpoint: Fundamental aspects of RoN are balanced/designed like it's still primarily a PvP game and it does the game overall a disservice.

With no players to balance against for fairness, there's little value in artificially hobbling players against the AI. Rather, give players an asymmetrical set of powerful tools and interesting situations for them to apply them in. SWAT are going to be better equipped than the criminals, that's a given. The criminals have their own unique breadth of asymmetrical advantages (Home turf, SWAT needing to abide by RoE) and in the rare occasions when criminals do achieve semi-parity with SWAT it becomes that much more dangerous of a situation.

As for choice being a fundamental aspect of "tactical" games, consider instead the actual value of the choices. When you customize a weapon in RoN, what's the point in using something like a less effective muzzle break or grip accessory? There's no unlock system, progression or point value you have to abide by. So what is the tactical decision making?

Why have a half dozen short barreled 5.56 rifles, that all realistically perform almost the same, and then induce artificial performance changes just to provide "choice" that doesn't really do anything?

[nom]

Originally posted by Pepper:

Originally posted by nom2609:

Alright, I should probably clarify instead of just saying that and then screwing off.

Ground Branch does have total customization freedom, which means that restrictions are basically thrown out the window in service to this freedom. While this seems like a plus at first, this just hurts the game. If you don't give players a reason to think about what they equip, they'll just bring an well-rounded loadout suited for every situation that doesn't need to change. Instead of justifying the addition of a laser-light combo (including the ability to switch between ir/visible on the fly) with the idea that it's "realistic", we should discuss about how the addition of such an item would affect a key aspect of RoN: loadout planning.

Right now, we have three overbarrel attachments: a visible laser, an IR laser, and a flashlight. The current dilemma is that if you bring one, you simply don't get the benefits of the other gadgets and are restricted to the benefits of the one you choose. For example, bringing a flashlight means that you can see in dark places at the expense of enemies being able to see this device; the alternative is that you can bring a laser to negate the detection risk, but you may have a hard time seeing in the dark unless you bring night vision, which has its own drawbacks. If we were to just add a laser-light combo, you would be able to negate detection risk and be able to see all scenarios.

This all seems obvious at first thought, but it's still really important to consider. Restrictions make players think, which is the ultimate goal of a tactical shooter. While a laser-light combo wouldn't be the most significant thing to affect planning, it does set a precedent where planning and thought (the fun part of the game) are second to """realism""".

Counterpoint: Fundamental aspects of RoN are balanced/designed like it's still primarily a PvP game and it does the game overall a disservice.

With no players to balance against for fairness, there's little value in artificially hobbling players against the AI. Rather, give players an asymmetrical set of powerful tools and interesting situations for them to apply them in. SWAT are going to be better equipped than the criminals, that's a given. The criminals have their own unique breadth of asymmetrical advantages (Home turf, SWAT needing to abide by RoE) and in the rare occasions when criminals do achieve semi-parity with SWAT it becomes that much more dangerous of a situation.

As for choice being a fundamental aspect of "tactical" games, consider instead the actual value of the choices. When you customize a weapon in RoN, what's the point in using something like a less effective muzzle break or grip accessory? There's no unlock system, progression or point value you have to abide by. So what is the tactical decision making?

Why have a half dozen short barreled 5.56 rifles, that all realistically perform almost the same, and then induce artificial performance changes just to provide "choice" that doesn't really do anything?

Balance is still an important thing to consider in a PvE setting, believe it or not. Make the game too easy and the game is boring; make the game hard and it’s frustrating. However, balance was not the main point of my post (although it is a reason), nor did I ever believe that this specific decision would be significant on its own, just the precedent it sets.

The scenario influences what the player brings, but if we were to allow the player to bring everything they wanted to, then they would be able to achieve any desired outcome, no matter what that scenario is. If the scenario is difficult and restrictions are also placed on the player, then it just makes the player think more. As already stated, loadout planning is a key part of RoN, so it’d be a little disappointing for it to be dumbed down just a little bit.

As for things regarding the value of choice, the solution would just be to actually give those choices some significant difference and add a sort-of funding system with it that affects all aspects of loadout planning. It’s something I’ve petitioned for many times in the past. In fact, this is the only situation where I would be fine with a laser light combo device. It would absolutely drive how players think about when approaching the game. Sure, you could bring the biggest gun with loaded attachments, but you’ll probably not have the money to cover a ceramic front/back plate or have plenty of tactical devices. It’s not all about balance, but mostly about making tactical gamers not braindead (which has been demonstrated many times).

[Twitch]

Originally posted by nom2609:

Originally posted by Saint Pablo:

I've always questioned this as Ground Branch does it effortlessly. It even comes with options on the fly for visible/IR lasers.

and, voila, it's one of the most boring tactical fps games to ever release

Was gonna call you out on that real fast... But you saved yourself.

[Twitch]

Originally posted by LtBlackbird:

Can have both the vanilla experience and modded.

...Except... That whole statement completely negates itself. Players that mod their games will and always have had a different experience from those that choose to play vanilla. As for modders being the ones to figure it out... keep waiting cause it'll never happen. I would not look forward to that fantasy realm where anyone else other than yourself can claim yes, that person that modded their game was on the exact same playing field as me and had no advantage over anyone else. Just because someone doesn't notice you using mods, doesn't mean you experienced the same game. If you were talking about servers that allow mods vs one's that don't that's a different story. You're giving the players the option to choose. But in no reality will those that choose to mod a game will have the same experience as those that don't and neither the devs nor the modding community will ever figure that "balance" out, because it's not a situation that can be balanced. You're one side of the coin or the other. You will never flip a coin and have it land upright on it's side.