How do veterans of SWAT 4 feel about this?

[Chris]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfCDnQetsMA

[shadowsc133]

RoN is still very far from Swat 4 in terms of gameplay mechanics, AI, atmosphere, fun, etc. The only thing it has going for is the graphics, which are becoming outdated already.

[Chris]

Originally posted by Hendrik123:

Originally posted by Chris:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfCDnQetsMA

What can I say. I played SWAT 4 as well as SWAT 3.
Just based on the gameplay, I prefer both games above RoN, but I think if the devs don't lose focus on AI behaviour then RoN will certainly get there and even succeed SWAT 4.

I really miss the AI bullet impact when you hit them, even Tarkov has that to a degree.

[Chris]

Originally posted by girthquake:

Originally posted by Chris:

I really miss the AI bullet impact when you hit them, even Tarkov has that to a degree.

The video is old, like before EA release old. As of the June update, the suspects do have hit reactions. These can be seen most reliably when they're shot with a rifle. The next update may expand on these even more

That's great to hear, I'm taking a break until 1.0 so i'm just eyeing it from the sidelines hoping for the best.

[ARUG]

yup SWAT4 was a very polished game , only had 1 patch and that was for the expansion , hopefully RON will continue to try and achieve the same level of finesse regarding interactions with the AI

[Bruce Springsteen fan]

I played SWAT 4 when it came out and I think it's ten times better than RON is.

[I Am The Law †]

I've played SWAT 4 a lot and it's no exaggeration to say that RoN has already caught up with SWAT 4 in many ways. Sometimes lacks atmosphere, and the huge ♥♥♥♥♥♥ dimensions of the map do not go well with the small size of the special forces group, but on the whole RoN is beautiful.

[Fax_the_Sender]

Originally posted by Kissa Ninja:

Originally posted by shadowsc133:

RoN is still very far from Swat 4 in terms of gameplay mechanics, AI, atmosphere, fun, etc. The only thing it has going for is the graphics, which are becoming outdated already.

Even the visuals suck in RoN.

what sucks? the unfinished maps? the ones in a playable state look fine.

[Chris]

Originally posted by Jim 711:

Originally posted by Kissa Ninja:

Even the visuals suck in RoN.

what sucks? the unfinished maps? the ones in a playable state look fine.

I think he means he misses the visual storytelling in swat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oTfH90psC4&t=1690s

Which imo I personally think RoN does a fine job of doing, especially after each update.

[shadowsc133]

Originally posted by Jim 711:

Originally posted by Kissa Ninja:

Even the visuals suck in RoN.

what sucks? the unfinished maps? the ones in a playable state look fine.

What finished maps? Lighting is bad on most (except maybe Valley?). So bad I think they announced a new lighting system recently (which looks to make it even worse).

There isn`t a single map without glitches, you just need to look around carefully and find walls not aligned with the ceiling, AI pathway issues, most objects lack any collision, etc.

But maps are hardly the main issue. The game has been in limbo for a long time, with update after update bringing little advancement but showing their inability to improve the AI (despite updates for the past 6 months targeting that).

More disturbing is that the devs communicate through back channels (discord?) and enigmatic memes, bringing zero transparency as to what the goals are or how they will achieve them. They gave up the "when" part after the community grew angry that they missed their own target dates, disregarding that they delivered underwhelming updates that even removed content.

Their latest tweet "Something important is on its way... Sooner than you think..." is lazy, hazy, and discourteous to whoever backed this project and seeks real improvements.

I hope they improve their communication here. Sinner mentioned they plan to provide youtube content. That would be a good first step, albeit long overdue.

I also hope they stop wasting time with senseless things (to me) like pumpkins, coffee machines, and memes, and use the resources to hire skilled people. The last consensus is they still have fewer than 22 programmers, despite all the hype they experienced when the game was released to the public a year ago.

[Biv]

Originally posted by shadowsc133:

Originally posted by Jim 711:

what sucks? the unfinished maps? the ones in a playable state look fine.

What finished maps? Lighting is bad on most (except maybe Valley?). So bad I think they announced a new lighting system recently (which looks to make it even worse).

There isn`t a single map without glitches, you just need to look around carefully and find walls not aligned with the ceiling, AI pathway issues, most objects lack any collision, etc.

But maps are hardly the main issue. The game has been in limbo for a long time, with update after update bringing little advancement but showing their inability to improve the AI (despite updates for the past 6 months targeting that).

More disturbing is that the devs communicate through back channels (discord?) and enigmatic memes, bringing zero transparency as to what the goals are or how they will achieve them. They gave up the "when" part after the community grew angry that they missed their own target dates, disregarding that they delivered underwhelming updates that even removed content.

Their latest tweet "Something important is on its way... Sooner than you think..." is lazy, hazy, and discourteous to whoever backed this project and seeks real improvements.

I hope they improve their communication here. Sinner mentioned they plan to provide youtube content. That would be a good first step, albeit long overdue.

I also hope they stop wasting time with senseless things (to me) like pumpkins, coffee machines, and memes, and use the resources to hire skilled people. The last consensus is they still have fewer than 22 programmers, despite all the hype they experienced when the game was released to the public a year ago.

You say all this bad ♥♥♥♥ about the game but you play the game damn near everyday

[shadowsc133]

Originally posted by Mick Schumacher:

Originally posted by shadowsc133:

What finished maps? Lighting is bad on most (except maybe Valley?). So bad I think they announced a new lighting system recently (which looks to make it even worse).

There isn`t a single map without glitches, you just need to look around carefully and find walls not aligned with the ceiling, AI pathway issues, most objects lack any collision, etc.

But maps are hardly the main issue. The game has been in limbo for a long time, with update after update bringing little advancement but showing their inability to improve the AI (despite updates for the past 6 months targeting that).

More disturbing is that the devs communicate through back channels (discord?) and enigmatic memes, bringing zero transparency as to what the goals are or how they will achieve them. They gave up the "when" part after the community grew angry that they missed their own target dates, disregarding that they delivered underwhelming updates that even removed content.

Their latest tweet "Something important is on its way... Sooner than you think..." is lazy, hazy, and discourteous to whoever backed this project and seeks real improvements.

I hope they improve their communication here. Sinner mentioned they plan to provide youtube content. That would be a good first step, albeit long overdue.

I also hope they stop wasting time with senseless things (to me) like pumpkins, coffee machines, and memes, and use the resources to hire skilled people. The last consensus is they still have fewer than 22 programmers, despite all the hype they experienced when the game was released to the public a year ago.

You say all this bad ♥♥♥♥ about the game but you play the game damn near everyday

Doesn`t mean a lot of other people will. I have a lot of free time and low expectations for gaming.

[The Black Baron]

Originally posted by Chris:

Originally posted by Hendrik123:

What can I say. I played SWAT 4 as well as SWAT 3.
Just based on the gameplay, I prefer both games above RoN, but I think if the devs don't lose focus on AI behaviour then RoN will certainly get there and even succeed SWAT 4.

I really miss the AI bullet impact when you hit them, even Tarkov has that to a degree.

That's coming back. When you shoot a suspect in the leg, he's going to flinch back maybe even fall down ^^

[shadowsc133]

Originally posted by Kissa Ninja:

Originally posted by shadowsc133:

Your criticism towards the game is invalid due the fact that this is a Early Access game.
Everything "bad" you see now will soon be gone in a flick of a wand once they actually release the game or something. Maybe 2030?

2030?? You are optimistic.

[shadowsc133]

"What AI updates has the game had besides the June update?"

It is consistently mentioned throughout the year with negligible improvements. Just use a text search for "AI" here: https://steamcommunity.com/app/1144200/discussions/0/3200371016634146347/

My point was that these "adjustments" show that they are (thus far) unable to improve the AI. Not seeing how my statement is inaccurate.

"I don't even know how these are logically connected. What resources needed for hiring programmers is lost to someone adding a functioning coffee machine to the game?"

It`s called time and money.

They hired someone to exclusively do memes on Twitter (these are words from a developer), while they can`t find someone to redo the AI.

"obviously temporary symptoms of an unfinished game. I'd expect to hear about fundamental flaws rather than just lists of bugs you found under a microscope. Bugs can be fixed and are expected to be."

A terrible AI for 3 years isn`t a mere symptom of slow development, it's a syndrome showing a characteristic pattern of behavior from devs disregarding a core game issue.

"bugs which will most likely be fixed before release"

Right... and that`s why we are here. Discussing how this game may never be as complete as Swat 4 was (at best). I wouldn`t think adding collision to objects would be that hard either, but here we are. Swat 3 had it 23 years ago.

What you call the prospect/chance of them getting it right, I call a lack of direction or at the very least transparency. But, like you, I hope to be wrong, and that they right this ship.

[Biv]

"They hired someone to exclusively do memes on Twitter (these are words from a developer), while they can`t find someone to redo the AI." no source? or they just said it as joke