Enemies in the new update are bullet sponges. [EDIT]

[ClovisMissing]

Been playing since launch, and it's ridiculous how many rounds it takes to kill a suspect with armor. And what's weirder is sometimes I shoot an enemy two times and they're dead on the spot, other times it takes half a mag, regardless of armor.

I feel like a really good way of combating this in a future update is to make it so that the enemies get very staggered if they're hit once. These are regular people with guns and armor, not military or SWAT that have been highly trained to be in intense, high risk scenarios. If you hit them once, their head will flinch slightly and keep shooting. They should instead fall over and start screaming in pain (armor stopping a bullet hurts like hell, too) or at least get staggered for a second. They don't even skip a beat.

[Edit] Even worse is how the bots have wallhacks. They literally shoot you with near-pinpoint accuracy through walls making it damn-near impossible to take cover and not die in a firefight. It's not fair.

And that leads me to my last point. In my opinion, and I might be TOTALLY wrong, I feel like a big part of this game pre-June 28 update is that you, the SWAT team, are literally SUPPOSED to have a leg up on the suspects. As previously mentioned, you are a highly trained professional who is sent in with tactical gear and armor, military-grade weapons and ammunition, and four other guys to assist you in neutralizing the threat. The fear that you are outnumbered should be intimidating and challenging, not game-breaking. You are the juggernaut they send in to save lives and restore the peace, not a minor inconvenience to the world's strongest men alive who can take six JHP rounds to the chest and walk it off.

If this is truly the direction the game is headed (which, by the way, is arcadey, not realistic), then at least give us an option to roll back to the previous version pre-June 28.

[J0e]

Adrenaline is a hell of a drug

[Western Civilization]

Adrenaline won't save you from a bullet in the brain

[Demesis]

Can confirm I've experienced this myself. Two occasions come to mind:

1) On hospital map, I once unloaded an entire AR mag into a suspect. He just flinched like the T-1000, absorbing all the shots and wouldn't go down. Suffice to say, I ended up dying trading shots with him. Needed a second person to unload another half mag to finish him off.

2) On the club map, I was using a shotgun and unloaded all 8 rounds into the back of a suspect who was running for cover. He just ate those rounds like it was nothing, turned around and killed me when I ran out of ammo.

Some of these suspects must be bugged or something.

[ClovisMissing]

Originally posted by J0e:

Adrenaline is a hell of a drug

I'd like to see someone get shot in the head with an UMP45 and bounce back up from adrenaline

[whythecynic]

Yeah, something seems off with the damage model. I put 2 rounds of 7.62 NATO into a suspect's head. He didn't go down. Other suspects have been taking 12 gauge slugs to the chest without so much as being staggered. My group was double or even triple tapping them with slugs, then we finally gave up. Gonna put the game down until it feels less janky.

[Andy Mil]

Find damage details i make by search for AI tank AP
i explain everything there
dont use Slug. I know it mean to shoot car but here cant even send people flying
Pistol. Never use them

[anton]

Originally posted by Demesis:

Can confirm I've experienced this myself. Two occasions come to mind:

1) On hospital map, I once unloaded an entire AR mag into a suspect. He just flinched like the T-1000, absorbing all the shots and wouldn't go down. Suffice to say, I ended up dying trading shots with him. Needed a second person to unload another half mag to finish him off.

2) On the club map, I was using a shotgun and unloaded all 8 rounds into the back of a suspect who was running for cover. He just ate those rounds like it was nothing, turned around and killed me when I ran out of ammo.

Some of these suspects must be bugged or something.

you did not unload a mag into them without them dying lmao. u missed

[Demesis]

Originally posted by super money:

Originally posted by Demesis:

Can confirm I've experienced this myself. Two occasions come to mind:

1) On hospital map, I once unloaded an entire AR mag into a suspect. He just flinched like the T-1000, absorbing all the shots and wouldn't go down. Suffice to say, I ended up dying trading shots with him. Needed a second person to unload another half mag to finish him off.

2) On the club map, I was using a shotgun and unloaded all 8 rounds into the back of a suspect who was running for cover. He just ate those rounds like it was nothing, turned around and killed me when I ran out of ammo.

Some of these suspects must be bugged or something.

you did not unload a mag into them without them dying lmao. u missed

I have other players with me who witnessed it too. The enemies were flinching from the shots, so no way was I missing. Wish I had recorded it. Either it was lag or they were bugged, but I'm guessing it's a bug because it's inconsistent and plenty of other people have been experiencing the same thing
.

[Andy Mil]

aya I gonna split more secret
IF you move and shoot. your shot actually not go where u aim. no, It does go but ur red dot.. just try it yourself

You can try FN 57 pistol then attract some laser sight and red dot. Watch while you strafe left and right or foward left right.
You will see the recitce dot are gone from your scope? whatever it call. and your laser also not where it seem

Now
try shoot and you will see. You are trained police special force but not holding gun like one. Like you are some recruit and they sus right now are ACTUAL special force that can walk and shoot fine and you also suffer from Stroke and Black screen stuff while they not suffer any of this while get shot at

so
You can not walk and shoot like them without learn how to miss alot but most you can do is crouch and walking. It will stable your aim FOR REAL

and they sus also got buff resistance to bullet soo you cant Ha Ha Ha SMG Pistol your way out. Assault Rifle is the only way to every type of sus
also dont forget to mod for full recoil build. It help if you go for knockout shot but most they will die

[SGTsimo]

Originally posted by ClovIsMissing:

Been playing since launch, and it's ridiculous how many rounds it takes to kill a suspect with armor. And what's weirder is sometimes I shoot an enemy two times and they're dead on the spot, other times it takes half a mag, regardless of armor.

I feel like a really good way of combating this in a future update is to make it so that the enemies get very staggered if they're hit once. These are regular people with guns and armor, not military or SWAT that have been intensively trained to take a bullet and shrug it off. If you hit them once, their head will flinch slightly and keep shooting. They should instead fall over and start screaming in pain (armor stopping a bullet hurts like hell, too) or at least get staggered for a second. They don't even skip a beat.

What does that mean “intensively trained to take a bullet and shrug it off”?

No one is ‘trained to take a bullet’.
What do you think trainers do? Actually shoot at swat/police intensively to accustom them to take a bullet?
What happens if they are not accurate enough? What happens if a bullet deflects? What happens if the person moves slightly?
The VERY first rule in weapon handling is ‘don’t point a gun at someone unless you intend to shoot them’.

No matter who you are being hit by a bullet into a vest will unsettle your nerves at the very least. It will make you unsteady on your feet, wind you or even break a rib.

You can be subjected to CS to accustom you but not take a bullet.

[Cpt. Jeff Gaybeard]

I believe the issue is really more about the lack of reactions for shots. Sure, people can take multiples rounds and still be fighting in some cases, but almost all of them will at least trip over, roll, stumble and get absolutely shocked in the process. You know, actually react to being shot.

Right now, the game has a bit of 0 and 100 combat state for most enemies. They either are completely unaware of you and calm, then instantly turn into John Wick concentration mode when ♥♥♥♥ start flying. There isn't much in-between those two extremes.

One way to put it is they are 100% combat effective all of the time until they hit the ground.

A system similar to the GTA 5/RDR2 system where pretty much all NPC reacts to being shot by stumbling around would be so perfect, althought obviously making such a system would require quite a lot of time and money. But well worth it imo.

[Xanderboom]

One guy i shot in Neon Night Club, guy wears a kevlar vest.

ARN-18 - 5.56 (AP Rounds)
• 3x R-Leg hit (Still Standing)
• 2x L-Leg hit (Still Standing)
• 2x R-Arm hit (Still Standing)
• 2x L-Arm hit (Still Standing)
• 16x Chest hit (Went Down)
Total = 25 Rounds

The guy went down, cuffed him, And he sat back up alive...

How can we be so busy with AI and how they operate, Which is fantastic by the way. Love it.

But not notice something MAJOR like this, it ruins the experience peeps! Please patch this!

[ClovisMissing]

Originally posted by Chef Jeff:

I believe the issue is really more about the lack of reactions for shots. Sure, people can take multiples rounds and still be fighting in some cases, but almost all of them will at least trip over, roll, stumble and get absolutely shocked in the process. You know, actually react to being shot.

Right now, the game has a bit of 0 and 100 combat state for most enemies. They either are completely unaware of you and calm, then instantly turn into John Wick concentration mode when ♥♥♥♥ start flying. There isn't much in-between those two extremes.

One way to put it is they are 100% combat effective all of the time until they hit the ground.

A system similar to the GTA 5/RDR2 system where pretty much all NPC reacts to being shot by stumbling around would be so perfect, althought obviously making such a system would require quite a lot of time and money. But well worth it imo.

Yeah, that's what I said. They need to have more serious/pratical reactions to being shot instead of just ignoring it and continuing to shoot you.

[BigJ]

Originally posted by Xanderboom:

One guy i shot in Neon Night Club, guy wears a kevlar vest.

ARN-18 - 5.56 (AP Rounds)
• 3x R-Leg hit (Still Standing)
• 2x L-Leg hit (Still Standing)
• 2x R-Arm hit (Still Standing)
• 2x L-Arm hit (Still Standing)
• 16x Chest hit (Went Down)
Total = 25 Rounds

The guy went down, cuffed him, And he sat back up alive...

How can we be so busy with AI and how they operate, Which is fantastic by the way. Love it.

But not notice something MAJOR like this, it ruins the experience peeps! Please patch this!

SLR47 - 7.62 (AP)
• 4-5x Chest hits (Suspect drops 50/50 on survival rate)
• 6-7x Arm/leg hits (Suspect drops, cuased by the current known bug of no arm penetration, 70/30 survival rate)
• 1-2 Headshots (Suspect drops)
• 6-7 shots through cover (Suspect drops 50/50 survival rate)

Found out that on rare occasions 2-3 leg shots will cause the suspect to try and limp away, which lets you rush him to force a surrender or finish them off. Additionaly proves how many of the people claiming the ai is a sponge are either using the wrong ammo type, smgs or the now bugged slugs, that or host is laggy. As a last point, suspect morale seems to be affected heavily if you prolongue gunfights...but longer gunfights make the ai more accurate.

[Ki11s0n3]

Yep. Nothing like two shots from the shotgun to the chest and still able to run away.