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Yes. But the REALLY dicy question is: playable to whom? =)
cause i know some ppl that would LOVE to simulate even the post-mission paperwork lol
Hi, i'm french and i just bought your game, i've played around 12 hours in 2 days i really really really enjoy this game on so many aspects, for me this game is already flawless and i never had thought like "omg this isn't realistic" during my gameplay, i'm happily surprised by the enemy AI behavior, sometime i think my team mates are really OP and better than me but it's not a shame, i often realize (after i died) i don't do enough team work, i'm mostly lone wolfing (does this term exist ? XD ) so i still need some more time to adapt to the real essence of this gameplay. But i wanted to thank you guys, as a player i want you to know that i really enjoy your work. You guys rocks !
A french admirer.
Define "acceptable". Are you talking legally? Morally? The standard of justifiable homicide in the US is "the shooter had a reasonable expectation of great bodily harm or death." The word "reasonable" has a lot of wiggle room, to say the least.
It's an absolute no-brainer.
Most of the gamemodes titles don't make sense. We don't actually have a true barricaded suspect scenario in the game. And serving a high risk search warrant or arrest warrant (AKA police raid) doesn't automatically mean everybody in the cordon can be shot on sight.
Having a gun does not automatically justify lethal force. And blanket policy to that effect has had unintended consequences. Consider suicide by cop. There is also a major distinction between having a gun and pointing a gun.
So even though I'm not law enforcement, I work with law enforcement on cases involving child sex abuse as well as child deaths, as I'm part of a specialized unit with our county's CPS.
One of the detectives whose office is located in our office is also part of our city's SWAT, since we don't have a full time dedicated SWAT. We've gotten to see some of his raids on the body cams, and there have been multiple times he's confronted armed suspects and not shot them because they have not yet raised their weapon, or they've been shot at, the perp retreated, and then threw their gun down.
The guy I work with has only been involved in one shooting where he killed a suspect because the guy charged out of a room with a shotgun. .
Point being, you CAN shoot a suspect who is armed and probably not lose your job, but if the suspect has not shown that they are preparing to fire, you will potentially be stuck in a fight trying to justify your actions which in today's world is becoming much harder if people review the footage and determine the person had a gun in their hand, but wasn't pointing it or looking as though they were making a move to ready it.
For missions like Neon Tomb, things get way murkier because you're dealing in a situation where like a billion civilians have already be killed and the suspects are heavily armed. However, the unrealistic part of this is that you wouldn't be sending in a 5 man team, but would more realistically be sending in around 30, probably from multiple agencies.
That said, officers who fire their weapon in the line of duty have a high likelihood of having multiple shootings in their career. I have a friend of mine who has 9 kills on the job and another who has 11.
As you can guess, it's often the SWAT guys and the K9 guys who have OISs.
Now as far as Neon Tomb is concerned, that is not a murky situation. It's pretty clear cut one. In an active killer or marauding terrorism attack the killers pose a clear and immediate threat to civilians and responding officers. They are clear to engage an threat that matches the description. The suspects in Neon Tomb also have the benefit of being pretty easy to identify so there's no ambiguity about who's the good guy and who's the bad guy. But you are correct that such an incident in real life would involve hundreds of LEOs and FLEOs on entry teams, maintaining the police cordon, operating command posts. Some of the most valuable active killer training for agencies isn't force-on-force but multi agency table top simulations where all the potential responding agencies work through who goes where and who does what.
This is great insight, thanks! Like you said, it's an incredibly complex topic. I wish this game demystified the rules a bit more, at the very least.
Would be really awesome and fun.
The trouble is what counts as a valid notification. Form my testing, it's only valid if you're in the same 'room' as the suspect. If you can order the AI to move and clear into it, it's a room. For better or worse, the game is somewhat inconsistent in what it considers to be a room. Large exterior areas that aren't broken up by gates are just big rooms, but longer hallways (take a look at the upstairs hallways in neon tomb) and larger rooms might be subdivided into smaller ones (one of the under construction rooms in the barricaded suspects version of hotel) by the game even though they just appear to be a regular hallway or room to the player. This limitation makes for some odd behavior where you can shout at an AI in an exterior area that's halfway across the map and have them surrender but not have the notification be considered valid when made to an AI that's visible 5 yd away in an adjacent room through an open door. Additionally the suspects head and most of their body needs to be visible for it to count as valid. So essentially you can't make notifications from the protection of cover or concealment like you would in the real world.
Notably, the civilian AI does not have these limitations. Form my observations they seem to acknowledge notifications by a simple range to player calculation. Although I have heard it claimed that there's some sort of sophisticated system that dictates how far your shouts travel. I'm skeptical.
So it seems reasonable that the restrictions placed on what counts as a valid notification are purposeful. And from a strictly gameplay approach it does make sense. A lot of players spam the shout key as a way to ping civilians. So if suspects had the same notification rules as civilians, you basically could shoot all of them on sight without issue as long as you hit the key a few rooms away. Not to mention suspect AI is pretty unreactive and static unless actively being engaged. So by putting restrictions on notifications, the game is forcing you into more nuanced conflicts with suspects and making it slightly less obvious that the AI isn't doing anything until you make entry.
Which isn't a bad idea, but this is where we run into problems. The gameplay was built around a tactic called dynamic entry. This is the classic throw a flashbang then have four shooters pile into room as fast as possible. Each with their own area of responsibility. Once they've run their walls, they take up a point of domination where they have maximum control of the room. It's all about overwhelming the enemy as fast as possible. For some situations it's a great technique and it's a core part of close quarter combat training and curriculum. In dynamic entries you're doing most of your gun fighting inside the room. So the in room shout restriction isn't as big of an issue when using this tactic (but still frustrating if there's an open door where you can see a suspect in an adjacent room).
The friendly AI is designed to do dynamic entries but unfortunately cannot pull it off to save their life. They go through the motions (since they're following preset paths by the level designers) but they do it with no coordination, recognition of threats and danger areas or or awareness of teammates cut off too deep in the room. The team is much too slow getting through the door and you end up with this disjointed mess on the other side of the threshold when they all start running their walls at different times. The first shooter through the door ends up doing most of the fighting because the second shooter takes an ice age to cross the threshold. Which is a huge tactical problem, you want the maximum number of guns in the fight as soon as possible. Remember, the defender has the advantage here so you need that numerical superiority.
The more contemporary method goes by several different names, some know it as limited penetration, one of the major LEO training organizations calls it threshold method, you can argue that center step is an offshoot, and some of the training I've attended has called it masking (I suspect someone got it confused with long cover and the name stuck), but it's all essentially the same concept. If you're ever lucky enough to attend DARC, this is the concept they are going to teach you. It combines the speed and violence of action of dynamic entry with the thoughtfulness of your traditional pie slicing. In simple terms, limited pen has you do most of your room clearing from outside the doorway. You pie outside to clear the easy corners and then do a dynamic style entry to clear the room's hard corners. When you do make entry, instead of penetrating deeply in the room to hit those points of domination, you move the bare minimum amount to clear. Since you're doing most of your clearing from outside, you're doing most of your fighting from outside the door. Which gives you a little bit of extra cover or concealment and gives you more options if you have casualties or need to retreat. I'm huge fan.
The game was absolutely not set up to support limited pen. The AI takes corners and thresholds like tanks so they have no ability to pie. And as we discussed earlier, if you try to make a notification to a suspect you see when clearing from outside the door it probably won't be valid because they will be partially visible and be in a different room than the player. Lastly the level design is very video gaming. Almost every room has at least two entrances and flows into a mini u-shaped level. So you're not putting long cover in the hallway as you're flowing in and out of connecting rooms.
Which is a huge disappointment. Because limited pen is a great method and makes the vanilla suspect AI significantly easier to deal with when you're not shackled by standing in front of them and yelling out in the open with no support. It's also pretty necessary to us because the friendly AI can't be relied upon to clear rooms using dynamic entry so you have to do the work for them before setting them loose inside the room.