A tutorial system is becoming a necessity

[cavjj]

400+ hours played and loving the game. Though, the added complexity with each update is dampening, rather than enhancing the experience (IMO).

I understand, appreciate and support the roadmap. Adding a methodology for peak and timetabling makes sense, gives the player options and I understand makes coding PAX more efficient. But, combined with already complex signalling, I do think there needs to be a better way to teach players how to use all these systems. I'm browsing forums and guides, only picking up pieces, and can't figure it out.

I'd love to use timetabling to create peak services, stop at night etc, but it's just so much easier to keep everything running in the loop.

I do hope depots return as an option. This was much more convenient than (what I think is) the current solution of creating a service line and a station with 0m radius? I understand this gives more options, but the complexity is getting a bit out of hand.

I know others may not agree, and others are using the new features fine. Just one opinion of many.

[stuarthtodd]

I absolutely agree. I stopped playing because the updates were becoming very complex. I have time to spend to learn to play again, but I just couldn't wrap my head around it and felt that re-learning the game was becoming almost intensive.

[adlet]

I am one of those people who do appreciate the complexity of the new system... That said, creating a good timetable is one of the more complex tasks in transit planning, with or without software. I created one line timetable today, and it took over an hour and probably another hour to fix errors in it. It's probably a full time job at a larger transit company...

Let me do an attempt at suggesting a simple way to create a line operating similar to 1.4 (but better, as it would be on a timetable). Consider this to be tutorial 1.0. :)

Objective: Create a line that operates on a simple fixed interval schedule with only one train schedule being managed (all others being copies), every 10 minutes from 6:00 to 23:30, from A to B (and back). At night the trains are stored in depot X near station A. The full line takes 57 minutes 23 seconds (Native loop) for round trip, including layover times.

1. Define line AB with relevant stations, stops, etc. This line service level should be Passenger service. I presume here station A is the first station.

2. 57 minutes 23 seconds is inconvenient for timetabling. For a 10 minute interval, it's convenient to increase the line round trip to 60 minutes. This would require 6 trains. Under Default timings, define Custom duration to be 1:00:00.

3. NIMBY will automatically add 2 minutes 37 seconds to the last station in the line, which may not be convenient. Determine where you prefer trains to spend this additional time. Say it's station A. Add 2 minutes 37 seconds to the already existing time at station A. Ensure Custom duration remains black (not red). Check now that both Custom loop and Native loop are at 1:00:00.

4. Define depot line X with just one station at X. Set service level to Technical maneuvers and Stop behavior to Black hole main, wait secondary.

5. Put NIMBY on pause. Acquire 6 trains (#1-#6) and give them Order "Mothballed" initially, to prevent wrong orders being given.

6. For train #1, go to Orders, change Mothballed to Manual orders. Click Append new orders. Under Run line, select AB. Ensure Enter event says Depart exactly at. Type 6:00:00 in the field near At: Monday. Ensure "Loop until next order" is clicked. Press Append new order. Now train #1 will leave station A at 6:00, 7:00, etc.

7. Determine your last desired departure time - to finish line operation around 23:30, I would set the last run for train #1 to be 22:00, so train #1 will complete the run and return to A at 22:59 before heading to the depot (and train #6 will operate until 23:49). To send train #1 to the depot after 22:59, under Append new order, in Run line, select X (depot line). Under Enter event, select Arrive by. Guess at how long it would take for the train to get from A to X - say 5 minutes. Give it a good cushion and enter say 23:30:00 into the field near At: Monday. (This gives a cushion of 25 minutes. The time you enter should be after 22:59 + trip time from A to X, but before 23:59 + trip time from A to X - otherwise train #1 will make another full run). Ensure "Loop until next order" is NOT checked. Press Append new order.

8. Scroll up and down through the timetable on the right of the list of orders. Check that the first run on line AB starts a few minutes before 6:00, and that the last run on line AB starts a few minutes before 22:00, and also that each run on line AB has the same height in the table (i.e. duration). If the last run on AB is before 21:00 (i.e. one run too few), edit the depot line X order to push it back a few minutes. If the last run on AB is just before 23:00 (i.e. one run too many on AB), edit depot line X order to accelerate it a few minutes.

9. Now the timetable for Monday is set. Click Select all orders. Under Bulk edit orders, in Shift field, type 24:00:00. Click Copy, Paste, Bulk shift and change. You now have a schedule for Tuesday. Continue clicking Copy, Paste, Bulk shift and change, to create orders for the rest of the week. Now the timetable is done for train #1.

10. Go to train #2. Select Auto copy manual orders. Under Copy, select Train #1. Type 0:10:00 in Shift and press Apply. Now the timetable is done for train #2.

11. Repeat step 10 for trains #3-6, putting 0:20:00, 0:30:00, etc. through 0:50:00 as shift. This completes the timetable for all trains for line AB.

The line will operate every day on a fixed 10 minute interval with first departure from station A (train #1) at 6:00, last departure (train #6) at 22:50. The last train (#6) will return to station A at 23:49 and head over to depot X. This is essentially 1.4 system, but with trains that will stick to timetables.

I think the above is a pretty simple routine once you have a line, a depot (i.e. just a station), a depot line, and trains. Putting in actual orders probably takes less than 10 minutes, especially after you have done it once or twice.

There are relatively simple ways to add peak hour trains and vary the levels of service during the day, and I will cover those later, but this would go beyond 1.4 functionality...

[Villagemayor]

I wholeheartedly agree! And a few YouTuber tutorial videos are more than obsolete. I am embarrassed to say I build only the minimum without even using the extensive timetable capabilities. Even station design and signalling I don't do. Understanding the developer has so much work to do to constantly improve. Perhaps the veterans out there can volunteer their time and create a tutorial task force.

[senorsoupe]

I don't know if this is a bug or a feature, but the timetable runs on UTC and not local time. I was trying to figure out why my train wasn't going to the depot overnight (my test line is in Florida) and found out that the "depot time" is 7 PM to midninght and I don't know how to fix it! Gah!

[Weird and Wry]

All trains have a timezone setting for the user input orders, which defaults to the first line time zone (which itself defaults to the time zone of the first line station). Basically every time you input in your orders is assumed to be in that timezone.

If you are looking at the "Run" tab of the train info window, it is bugged in 1.5.23 and it does not adapt to the selected timezone. It will be fixed in 1.5.24. The run panel in the orders editor is the correct one.

[MirkoC407]

By the way - are time zones still calculated by longitude or has a real time zone map sneaked in?

[senorsoupe]

Originally posted by Weird and Wry:

All trains have a timezone setting for the user input orders, which defaults to the first line time zone (which itself defaults to the time zone of the first line station). Basically every time you input in your orders is assumed to be in that timezone.

If you are looking at the "Run" tab of the train info window, it is bugged in 1.5.23 and it does not adapt to the selected timezone. It will be fixed in 1.5.24. The run panel in the orders editor is the correct one.

Christ, I can't believe I didn't notice that dropdown menu

I am so smart SMRT

[Weird and Wry]

No, it is still longitude / 15. Real timezones are unlikely to be implemented given the absurd complexity of having to intersect points on geometric shapes from a map tile (which would also need to be loaded from the disk) just to do time calculations.

[Yonsef86]

Originally posted by Weird and Wry:

No, it is still longitude / 15. Real timezones are unlikely to be implemented given the absurd complexity of having to intersect points on geometric shapes from a map tile (which would also need to be loaded from the disk) just to do time calculations.

Plus governments tend to change them (not even talking about Daylight Saving). At least a few times per year someplace on earth it changes. I would not expect the game to keep track of that.

[senorsoupe]

OK so new question. How do I choose a station for the interval stop? In 1.4 and older versions you could designate a stop where trains would wait for the appropriate gap before setting off again, but I don't see that option in 1.5. I am working on updating lines to close at night and now the trains are bunching up and I am not sure how to fix this

[adlet]

There is no such station because there is no interval in 1.5. Each train has its own timetable that they follow, and monitor it at every station and in fact in between as well. They do not consider whether they are at interval with another train or right behind it. I presume you are converting to manual orders (in auto run orders trains run 24x7). The easiest to do is as follows. Say your line full run is 2 hours and you have trains every 10 minutes (i.e. 12 in total).

1. Pick your train #1 and determine at what station and when it goes from the depot, and when from what station it would go into the depot. Take into account that train #12 will follow it 1 hour 50 minutes later. For train #1, say early morning start at 6:20 from station #1, and back into the depot at 22:30 from station #5 (then for train #12, 0:20). Make sure this works from the timing perspective, i.e. this train starts at 6:20 from station #1, it will be there once again at 8:20, 10:20.... 22:20. Then it may be at station #5 at around 22:35, i.e. close enough.

2. Put the game on pause. I would also create a backup copy just in case.

3. Create a depot line with one station for the depot. This can be really any station but best, away from passenger lines (a siding). Ensure the line is Technical maneuvers and Stop behavior = Black hole main, wait secondary. Make sure the train exiting this station will not go wrong way and put a signal for exiting.

4. Convert train #1 from auto-run to manual orders, and add an order to run this line with looping box checked, joining at the first station and exiting at station #5. Set up departure time at exactly 6:20:00. Ensure the order is set for all days of the week (default).

5. Add another order for train to go back to depot. Set it for the depot line you created. Say the run from station #5 into the depot is about 20 minutes. Then you can set up order for train #1 to arrive into the depot at e.g. 23:20 at the latest. Do not check the "Loop until next order" box. Ensure all days of the week are selected (same, this is the default). You should see in the train timetable that the train is scheduled to arrive at station #5 at 22:35 and from there head to the depot.

6. For trains #2-12, set order as Auto-copy, and select train #1 as their source. Set up intervals for these trains at 00:10:00, 00:20:00, etc. through 1:40:00.

7. Resume the game.

Now the orders are set for all 12 trains, but it may take a while before they take effect. The trains will need to finish their existing orders, and that may take through the end of the day. Most likely your trains will not be on schedule until the next morning.

[senorsoupe]

Ugh, this is complicated. I'm working on a tram line that only takes a total of 30 minutes to run (3 trams, 10 minute interval) and over the course of the day the trams bunch up. I'm changing the start time of each tram to be 10 minutes apart, hopefully that works for the next day

[adlet]

This should work as well.

[Trixi]

Originally posted by senorsoupe:

Ugh, this is complicated. I'm working on a tram line that only takes a total of 30 minutes to run (3 trams, 10 minute interval) and over the course of the day the trams bunch up. I'm changing the start time of each tram to be 10 minutes apart, hopefully that works for the next day

Add a 2nd platform at the station where You wait for the intervals and also add it to the line,so your trains can pass each other.

[Small Ejector]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a useful tutorial that covers the latest (or close to) build, either video or written? I’ve looked at the wiki and whilst useful, something more in-depth breaking down each component in more detail. I’m not a novice to train games so get the general concepts, but help on terminus stations, depots, timetables etc would be really appreciated.