The Pre-order issue

[minemanyt70]

I'm not saying that keen charging 30 dollars for a Pre-order is bad, Hell I already paid for it. this posts is to be a counter argument to all the hate that it is getting. (Though a $15 DLC is iffy at best right now)

So first we have people complaining that It is over priced for a Pre-order. Now we have to take some things into account Space Engineers during early access cost was 15 USD and had 12 developers. SE 2 costs 30 dollars and has 70 developers. If we account inflation into SE 1 early access costs $20. This means they are only charging 10 bucks more for game that has 5 times more the devs. Then we have to account as well for the fact they have worked on this for 3 years by this point. This isn't even including the fact most games you get early are cost 20 to 30 dollars more then there base game counterpart.

Then we have the argument that it is ether A. a remake with better textures, or B. A highly modded version of the game. Those arguments are sort of bull as if you check the roadmap for argument A you can see that's not true. (https://2.spaceengineersgame.com/roadmap-2/#current) Then argument B only works here on PC, As all of those mods do not work on console at all. I should know, as I play SE on Xbox.

Then last but not least the argument that keen will drop it like medieval engineers, which could be a valid argument if it wasn't updated earlier this month.

[Raidfire]

There is also the issue of how many modders will actually continue on to SE2 from SE1 since they are dropping the steam workshop where modders live and breath. Sure some is ok with mod.io and it has worked fine where console users have asked modders to put unscripted mods on mod.io. But purely using mod.io(well forcing the modders) is not a good decision. Their intent is to bring the communities together and that wont work. They arent really seperated by where mods or blueprints are. Just simply because it has allways been consoles on one side and pc users on the other. Nothing is going to change that. We modders are used to the steam workshop and it has allways been like that. The steam workshop was never forced in any way since in the beginning it was the only option.

[minemanyt70]

Originally posted by Raidfire:

There is also the issue of how many modders will actually continue on to SE2 from SE1 since they are dropping the steam workshop where modders live and breath. Sure some is ok with mod.io and it has worked fine where console users have asked modders to put unscripted mods on mod.io. But purely using mod.io(well forcing the modders) is not a good decision.

There are some theory's that there just going to be storing the files on mod.io and have the workshop fully built in game. With the fact we are getting built in mod tools and later scripting tools it does make a bit more sense

[Raidfire]

Originally posted by minemanyt70:

Originally posted by Raidfire:

There is also the issue of how many modders will actually continue on to SE2 from SE1 since they are dropping the steam workshop where modders live and breath. Sure some is ok with mod.io and it has worked fine where console users have asked modders to put unscripted mods on mod.io. But purely using mod.io(well forcing the modders) is not a good decision.

There are some theory's that there just going to be storing the files on mod.io and have the workshop fully built in game. With the fact we are getting built in mod tools and later scripting tools it does make a bit more sense

But do you think the modders will actually see it that way when their preferred platform has allways been the steam workshop. And mod.io was introduced to give consoles mods if the modder chooses to put it there. If you take away the main platform modders have allways used and mod.io has mostly been avoided because of bad reputation, and various other reasons. I doubt youl see many modders when modding becomes available. A few perhaps. I wont be there tho. And i think alot of others will just quit modding or just continue with SE1 modding.

[Crown]

What gives mod.io such a bad rep? I mean the UI is a bit fugly..

[Blazer87bw]

id easily pay $70 for this game and i very rarely buy games that price because i only ever play them for 100hrs at most. Thats 0.70 cents per hour of game play. Still not a bad expense of entertainment per hour though. At about 4000hrs in, If i payed $70 on se1 (and i would have knowing what i know now, but maybe not then) thats 0.0175 cents for per hour. for less than 2 pennies an hour and i have had years of entertainment. $30 that's 0.0075, 3 quarters of a damn penny per hour and people are complain about this but will pay $100 on call of duty and play it for 20 hrs. Stupid and lacking insight is what they are. Cant understand the value and the coast of the game and just want everything for free.

at $30 say if all 8,137 in game in se1 got alpha 1st month. thats $244,110 in sales. if that was instantly divided to the 70 ppl working on se2 for the last 3 years (wrongly to assume its be 70 the whole time and they are all paid the same) it would be $3,487 each, (but thats not even how it works just painting a picture of how much 70 people coast). if they managed to sell 20k copies first year it would be 600k in sales with each person in that still only $8,571 each for the last 4 years work.

Space Engineers sold an estimated 3.7 million copies on Steam.
Space Engineers has sold more than 500,000 copies on Steam Early Access.
using this and factoring very vaguely for se2 over the next ten years:
$111,000,000 in total sales
$11,100,000 per year
Even if it would be "evenly split" between all 70 pll thats only $158,571 per year per person
None of this is even taking into consideration any coasts at all other than payroll, absolute best case assuming se1 sales payed for all tech and buildings needed and it remains 70 ppl working the next ten years and they all get paid the same amount.

To address the $15 "Dlc" as you called it, The Pioneer addition. its main reason is for people who "Want to support the development a little more and get an extra bonus" Se1 did this with its deluxe edition back in the day as well. i dont see anything wrong with it as you can still just buy the base game. The deluxe edition gave a gold skin and the sound track and that's basically it. no in game benefits or blocks and i believe se2 will do the same. Keen seems to be a very fair development studio that has never charged a player in se to have an advantage and its all cosmetic. the point of it is for the people who do choose to support the game but they still give everybody everything game impacting no matter how much you support. Based off the math above, i appreciate the people who do buy this because it makes it a better game for everybody else.

Even if this was just an "update or mod" for se1 id still buy it because of the value in the upgrades. even if it was a carbon copy of the original that just "looked and functioned" a little better.

Medieval engineers was dropped because shortly after releasing se1 into alpha it took the sage of attention. Being a team of less than 20 ppl at that time, what makes more sense to pursue? a game with a few 100 people playing or a game with 10s of thousands of people playing? would be a very easy pick for me too. they didnt just drop M.E it had no relevant reason to stay in production for the company and people just weren't playing it. S.E was a futuristic space game with endless possibility M.E was an over saturated Medieval experiences that had lots of limitations and creativity caps. Kinda a no brainer as to where the time should go.

[minemanyt70]

Originally posted by Blazer87bw:

id easily pay $70 for this game and i very rarely buy games that price because i only ever play them for 100hrs at most. Thats 0.70 cents per hour of game play. Still not a bad expense of entertainment per hour though. At about 4000hrs in, If i payed $70 on se1 (and i would have knowing what i know now, but maybe not then) thats 0.0175 cents for per hour. for less than 2 pennies an hour and i have had years of entertainment. $30 that's 0.0075, 3 quarters of a damn penny per hour and people are complain about this but will pay $100 on call of duty and play it for 20 hrs. Stupid and lacking insight is what they are. Cant understand the value and the coast of the game and just want everything for free.

at $30 say if all 8,137 in game in se1 got alpha 1st month. thats $244,110 in sales. if that was instantly divided to the 70 ppl working on se2 for the last 3 years (wrongly to assume its be 70 the whole time and they are all paid the same) it would be $3,487 each, (but thats not even how it works just painting a picture of how much 70 people coast). if they managed to sell 20k copies first year it would be 600k in sales with each person in that still only $8,571 each for the last 4 years work.

Space Engineers sold an estimated 3.7 million copies on Steam.
Space Engineers has sold more than 500,000 copies on Steam Early Access.
using this and factoring very vaguely for se2 over the next ten years:
$111,000,000 in total sales
$11,100,000 per year
Even if it would be "evenly split" between all 70 pll thats only $158,571 per year per person
None of this is even taking into consideration any coasts at all other than payroll, absolute best case assuming se1 sales payed for all tech and buildings needed and it remains 70 ppl working the next ten years and they all get paid the same amount.

To address the $15 "Dlc" as you called it, The Pioneer addition. its main reason is for people who "Want to support the development a little more and get an extra bonus" Se1 did this with its deluxe edition back in the day as well. i dont see anything wrong with it as you can still just buy the base game. The deluxe edition gave a gold skin and the sound track and that's basically it. no in game benefits or blocks and i believe se2 will do the same. Keen seems to be a very fair development studio that has never charged a player in se to have an advantage and its all cosmetic. the point of it is for the people who do choose to support the game but they still give everybody everything game impacting no matter how much you support. Based off the math above, i appreciate the people who do buy this because it makes it a better game for everybody else.

Even if this was just an "update or mod" for se1 id still buy it because of the value in the upgrades. even if it was a carbon copy of the original that just "looked and functioned" a little better.

Medieval engineers was dropped because shortly after releasing se1 into alpha it took the sage of attention. Being a team of less than 20 ppl at that time, what makes more sense to pursue? a game with a few 100 people playing or a game with 10s of thousands of people playing? would be a very easy pick for me too. they didnt just drop M.E it had no relevant reason to stay in production for the company and people just weren't playing it. S.E was a futuristic space game with endless possibility M.E was an over saturated Medieval experiences that had lots of limitations and creativity caps. Kinda a no brainer as to where the time should go.

I have a feeling that you misinterpreted what I meant, This post is my argument to all the types of arguments I have seen against SE2 well looking through the other threeds

[minemanyt70]

Originally posted by Raidfire:

Originally posted by minemanyt70:

There are some theory's that there just going to be storing the files on mod.io and have the workshop fully built in game. With the fact we are getting built in mod tools and later scripting tools it does make a bit more sense

But do you think the modders will actually see it that way when their preferred platform has allways been the steam workshop. And mod.io was introduced to give consoles mods if the modder chooses to put it there. If you take away the main platform modders have allways used and mod.io has mostly been avoided because of bad reputation, and various other reasons. I doubt youl see many modders when modding becomes available. A few perhaps. I wont be there tho. And i think alot of others will just quit modding or just continue with SE1 modding.

Okay, so that's the thing, your entire argument happens to go off the fact that SE has always used the steam workshop. But it make sense for them to move away form it for better Cross-compatibly with console. as right now we get less then half of the stuff that you guys do in SE. It also makes sense if there trying to keep the mods inside of the game and keep them more compatible.

Edit 1: Even the argument that Mod.io is bad, which you did not bring up in reason other the bad reputation, even more so I happen to be in multiple discord server that are SE mods and there saying they'll see based on how the game reacts with mods not based on if it goes to steam or mod.io