Just stumbled over this game. What is the point?

[~* BiZZ Keryear *~]

Way back when I pretty much bought the first Space Engeneers as soon as it was availible in 2013. And so the Medieval Engineers (which was back then more expensive than it is today, even with EA discount, and another discount it was 17,24€ on Feb 19, 2015, which is a big oof since now it is 8,19€ and basically abandoned, twice)
Back then I was pretty excited because of the predecessor. Miner Wars 2081. Which basically promised a lot of what SE was about to become, but then turned out mostly top down.
Anyways: I never really got into the later versions of SE1 as Keen never managed to make the survival work on planets. The drop point was too random, often making progress impossible as the ressources were unreachable in any practical scenario*². And other problems with the gameplay.
As sandbox and in space that was less of an issue.

So what new (gameplay) mechanics brings (/plans to bring) SE2 to the table?

• Beside the improved (but outdated*) engine.
  
• hope better AI. Medieval Engineer shows how much the AI, Keen used, sucks.
  
• Better physics?
  
• Better construction? Full blocks (with exceptions) isn't just up to date anymore. There are plenty of games that allow for thinner walls.

*=the engine is outdated as it doesn't use/support modern technologies. Of which I'm kinda grateful, as I don't have a card that supports ray(/path)tracing or AI features. But my old, very outdated, rig is hardly the standard.
*²=techncially they are reachable, which does you little good when they are half around the planet.

Edit: Please forgive typos/ grammar errors, as steam refuses to let the spelling correction to be turned to a language that differes from the system language. That means, for me, every word is marked as incorrect. (Sometimes I use external editors for that, today I don't have the option)

[Evil_Doc]

To point, is for KSH to make $$$. YOUR money, in THEIR pocket. That's the point. It's always been the point.... but even then, they're not as bad as CIG (and their flagship title: Cash Citizen...err.. I meant, Star Citizen).

[bossbill1]

Originally posted by ~* BiZZ Keryear *~:

*=the engine is outdated as it doesn't use/support modern technologies. Of which I'm kinda grateful, as I don't have a card that supports ray(/path)tracing or AI features. But my old, very outdated, rig is hardly the standard.

You need to do a bit more research, Keen have made a new engine for SE2 if you had taken the time to look you would have seen this......

VRAGE3’s GPU-driven pipeline delivers stunning next-generation visuals with raytracing, global illumination, tessellated terrain, and parallax mapping. Experience true volumetric environments where everything – from planets and asteroids to your own ships – is volumetric, fully destructible and physically simulated.

[baddoggs]

Originally posted by Evil_Doc:

To point, is for KSH to make $$$. YOUR money, in THEIR pocket. That's the point. It's always been the point.... but even then, they're not as bad as CIG (and their flagship title: Cash Citizen...err.. I meant, Star Citizen).

To be fair, making a living is we we ALL do what we do.
Developers need to make a living as well.

[A Fat, Angry Serval]

This particular game is VERY early in development. I'd recommend looking at the original Space Engineers if you want a completed game.

[Tux]

How long did it take to write this?

[~* BiZZ Keryear *~]

Originally posted by Evil_Doc:

To point, is for KSH to make $$$. YOUR money, in THEIR pocket. That's the point. It's always been the point.... but even then, they're not as bad as CIG (and their flagship title: Cash Citizen...err.. I meant, Star Citizen).

The term flagship title would only work, if they had other titles. They do not.

Scott Manley did not only backed that shipwreck, but also sunk several thousand $ in additional ships into it.

Well, unlike KSP/2 there's still development. Even if they just released (end of January 2025) the Alpha build (4.0.1) they teased in 2019.

Originally posted by A Fat, Angry Serval:

This particular game is VERY early in development. I'd recommend looking at the original Space Engineers if you want a completed game.

I have everything of the original SE, only missing the latest DLC (Contact Pack). I own the base SE since 2013.

What I want to know is what are the changes they declared / teased. There must be more than just a slight graphic overhaul and engine update.

Originally posted by bossbill1:

Originally posted by ~* BiZZ Keryear *~:

*=the engine is outdated as it doesn't use/support modern technologies. Of which I'm kinda grateful, as I don't have a card that supports ray(/path)tracing or AI features. But my old, very outdated, rig is hardly the standard.

You need to do a bit more research, Keen have made a new engine for SE2 if you had taken the time to look you would have seen this......

VRAGE3’s GPU-driven pipeline delivers stunning next-generation visuals with raytracing, global illumination, tessellated terrain, and parallax mapping. Experience true volumetric environments where everything – from planets and asteroids to your own ships – is volumetric, fully destructible and physically simulated.

Originally posted by From their support page:

Hardware Requirements
Minimum: Geforce 1660 Super
Recommended: Geforce 2080 Ti

The 1660 can't do path tracing, the 2080 barely. "stunning next-generation visuals with raytracing" is marketing BS in that context. If they had said 4090 I would have believed it.

[bossbill1]

If you want to know whats in the game right now and different from se1 I suggest you go look at some youtube vids. You will be able to see what the game looks like and plays like....for instance this one ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC9mpRhdo4w

With regards to ray tracing and next gen graphics it is not BS. Its in the game right now as you would see from watching the vids.

Just because a card such as the 1660 can't do ray tracing does not stop the game from running, it means you will just not be able to see or use that feature. There are people out there right now playing se 2 on gtx1080s and having fun doing so.

[Hexenhammer]

What is the point. To make money.
Gasp. How dare Keen do this. I'n protest I'm going to play Pokemon Legends: Z-A (The 22? Pokemon game) while CoD 5 updates.

[Balmung]

Originally posted by bossbill1:

If you want to know whats in the game right now and different from se1 I suggest you go look at some youtube vids. You will be able to see what the game looks like and plays like....for instance this one ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC9mpRhdo4w

With regards to ray tracing and next gen graphics it is not BS. Its in the game right now as you would see from watching the vids.

Just because a card such as the 1660 can't do ray tracing does not stop the game from running, it means you will just not be able to see or use that feature. There are people out there right now playing se 2 on gtx1080s and having fun doing so.

It's anyway wrong to say that the 1660 can not use the RT, the 1660 supports some stuff from RT and we also only talk from the hardware accelerated RT from NVidia, other RT solutions could work as well.

And yeah, minimum requirements are minimum requirements, which mostly mean when you put all graphic stetting to low. Or other said: it is the minimum to be playable with low graphic settings. For RT/PT stuff you need in near any game more as minimum, mostly recommended hardware, beside games that needs it and can't be put off like on Final Fantasy VII Rebirth and some others brand new PC games, there are the minimum already limited to cards who have hardware accelerated RT.

Beside that, a RTX 1660 is already 6 years old. Time to upgrade anyway.

[Dan2D3D]

Hi, about SE1 Drop Pod, we can use the F5 key to respawn at another area and I can tell I usually have to F5 about 10 times to land at one of the Rich ore spots of the planet.
+
Easier to start on Titan when we don't want to mess with the feature F5/Respawn at another area.
+
All planets have Rich ore areas having all ores within 1Km, it takes time to explore the Star System but all good once we know because ores don't move, i mean ores are at the same GPS coords on creating a new world.

I can share GPS coords of my Favorite Rich ore spots of Earth Planet so you can verify :
GPS:Earth Easy Biome:48784.05:-5056.35:34844.1:
GPS:Earth Desert ice lake:-10568.09:-10242.01:58045.57:#FF75C9F1:
GPS:Earth to Moon:14057.55:52954.06:-27358.68:#FFFFEC5F:

_____

That said, the first new cool thing that is available to test is the new blocks system that was in the most wanted of SE1 = "Small on Large" and more will be added later for all participant in the making to test and feedback on what can be done to make it better a few features at a time.

+
They shared the list of the first Roadmap :
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3419095378
Roadmap: The Vertical Slice Approach

Here's a glimpse of what's to come:

VS 1: Creative Mode (January 27, 2025)

VS 1.1: UGC Workshop - Share your creations with other players

VS 1.2: Improved mechanics and interface refinements

VS 1.5: Modding - VRAGE HUB, VRAGE Editor, and other tools

VS 2: Planets and Survival - Explore planets and our new Almagest System. Utilize new tools like backpack building and projection building, while experiencing improved progression and engaging challenges.

VS 3: Water - Planetary-scale volumetric water transforms gameplay. Engineer across oceans, rivers, and lakes. Construct boats and submarines for underwater exploration.

More to Come - We have exciting plans for additional Vertical Slices that will expand upon core mechanics, introduce new features, and ultimately build towards a complete Space Engineers 2 experience. On the horizon: Multiplayer, NPCs, Story Campaign, and more.


Ref.:
https://2.spaceengineersgame.com/space-engineers-2-alpha-revealed/
+
https://2.spaceengineersgame.com/roadmap-2/#current
+
https://blog.marekrosa.org/

[Dan2D3D]

Sorry correction made -> not SE2 but SE1 Drop Pod.

[Balmung]

Originally posted by ~* BiZZ Keryear *~:

The 1660 can't do path tracing, the 2080 barely. "stunning next-generation visuals with raytracing" is marketing BS in that context. If they had said 4090 I would have believed it.

Say you didn't have inform yourself without saying it. Watching some videos already would helped here to see RT in action.

Steam recommendation are anyway a bit strange from game to game. I can't put the graphics on maximum in 4K with my 4090, too less FPS. Because it only supports right now FSR for Anti Aliasing only (not upscaling), no full FSR and no DLSS support right now. But I'm sure that will change over time. Also VRage 3 is still in the middle of development so also not well optimized yet. Optimizing on VRage 2 in SE1 did also a lot for the game, but VRage 2 was too limited on single CPU threads which is the main bottle neck on SE1 and the main reason for SE2 now, too much old stuff in SE1 that was a compromise because of VRage 2 and also the old Havok pyhsics engine, the game suffered a lot from that two too old engines. Keen couldn't do with SE1 what the wanted that is the main reason why SE2 exists.

VRage 3 is a complete new engine, development started 3+ years ago from near scratch. They use a pretty much up to date Havok engine which has improved over 10 years a lot and is noticeable better than near all other physic engines for their game (Keen has made a physic engine test a while ago - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVNxF8KG8wQ ).

Yes, SE2 has a long way to go, but if all works like planed alone physical dynamic water will change a lot. Also modding with an ingame mod browser and official modding tools will also chance on the modding front a lot. VRage 3 is also more made with modding and multiplayer in mind. Even in single player your game world runs in a server instance on your PC (of course - no internet required) which makes it a lot easier to develop CoOp and Multiplayer because of one single code base. Keen internally multiplayer already works, but in their local network, not over the internet yet, so still a lot of work to do until we player get multiplayer.

The biggest difference will be survival, here a lot of stuff that is found in the Pioneers Edition point to that Keen is thinking much further with SE2 as the every had on SE1. So survival will look in at least some aspect a lot different. And they plan with a real story campaign, with more NPC stuff, more interesting space etc. But on that point they where not so much detailed because that is still heavy in designing phase.

[A Fat, Angry Serval]

Originally posted by ~* BiZZ Keryear *~:

Originally posted by A Fat, Angry Serval:

This particular game is VERY early in development. I'd recommend looking at the original Space Engineers if you want a completed game.

I have everything of the original SE, only missing the latest DLC (Contact Pack). I own the base SE since 2013.

What I want to know is what are the changes they declared / teased. There must be more than just a slight graphic overhaul and engine update.

At the moment, other than the new engine and graphics overhaul it's just the unified grid system. Dynamic water is planned but won't be implemented until planets are released.

That being said, the unified grid system is already completely revolutionizing how ships are built. There's a lot more potential for detail with the new 25cm blocks and being able to combine all three block sizes in the same grid.

[FireFox]

The Vrage 3 engine does have modern graphics improvements, it's supports Ray Traced graphics, though performance will vary if you have a nVidia vs. an AMD GPU and of course there are the lower-end variations of those brands.

I wouldn't expect it to work on Intel's Battlemage and Alchemist GPU's yet though they're still working on that particular issue.

Also the Survival in Space Engineers, on planets is minimal, it's not non-functional or not really working, it works, it's just not hardcore survival like Ark or Rust. If you're expecting that level of survival gameplay then you're looking at the wrong game. SE's Survival is mostly "Survive against Wolves, Giant Bugs, Dangerous Weather, or Pirates." at no time are you without resources (unless you start with no tools, then you can easily accidentally soft-lock yourself).

[Evil_Doc]

Originally posted by ~* BiZZ Keryear *~:

The term flagship title would only work, if they had other titles. They do not.

Ummmm..... Squadron 42?