IS KLANG STILL A THING??

[Cpt.Waffleiron]

Klang completely ruined SE1 for me. Every time I wanted to make a cool ship with moving parts, or build a base that was a little more than just a box with other boxes attached, basically any and every time I tried to incorporate moving parts into the design it would ruin the game.
This happened in both singleplayer and multiplayer, but was more egregious in multiplayer.
Completely killed the fun for me.
Now I hear that multiplayer isn't even a thing yet, and that leads me to one simple question:
Did they get rid of klang?
Can I finally have my ships with folding wings and retracting landing gear?
Can I use a drill-crane and dig out a big pit to mass harvest material without murdering a server now?

[Dan2D3D]

Hi, very hard to tell right now because the first VS testing is just thrusters and gyro blocks that are working, so we can test the new speed with ships and can create stations to report all problems asap so they can fix and move on to the next VS update in the Roadmap.

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I can tell some already reported Bugs but nothing related to complex multigrrd creations that can give "Clang" explosion problems.

That said, the best we can do during Alpha testing is to send the world save when we find a "Clang" bug with the steps to reproduce the bug so they can try and be able to start working on a fix for your specific creation having Clang problems.



The how to participate is in that green Pin :

Where & How to share your feedback Pin 📌
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1133870/discussions/0/744883366278525029/

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Roadmap added on Steam News, important information in the green Pins and from those links :

https://2.spaceengineersgame.com/space-engineers-2-alpha-revealed/
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https://2.spaceengineersgame.com/roadmap-2/#current
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https://blog.marekrosa.org/

[Dan2D3D]

I will add:

The first testing is not just thrusters and gyros but to try the new block system (small on large), also test the new Voxel tools and report all problems asap so they can move on to VS1.1 update.

[Dan2D3D]

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I can tell there are setups to avoid in SE1 but we just have to do it different, I mean don't keep the not working setups you find, Redo different till solution found is the Way in SE1.

I got problems making my most "Complex" creation in SE1 but I have deleted all the not working setups I found to Redo different and I found a working stable solution.

My most complex is large block Rover with trailer having a folding drill arm, it works but only in experimetal mode where we have "Share inertia tensor" because needed on that specific creation :
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3421215495
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3377622224

Like I said earlier -> Just send you "bugged" creation for testing and they will tell you if it is a creation/setup they will fix or not.

[Balmung]

The biggest issue on SE1 is the Havok physic Engine Version. As SE1 was made, Physic Engines where not so really stable and cause a lot of issues. Keen could improve it over the years (the first few years it was even more critical) but it is still the old Version of Havok.

SE2 use a much newer (when not the newest) version of the Havok physic engine, They made some tests some time ago of different physic engines and the actual Havok was not only better as all others they tested, it looks also very very stable. A day and night different difference to SE1.

That said, using it in SE2 instead of a test with Unreal Engine is a bit a different thing. But that physic that is already in SE2 shows already a good stability.

An "rotor" try:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWb9jE8ySmc

He also tried a lot of such things where physic is involved. But because SE2 has a feature where no damage is happen when it is under 20m/s only physic can do something wrong here, not block damage. Maybe this feature also helps later on rotors/motors/pistons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYzlfSxXTKM

[A Fat, Angry Serval]

There's been some videos over on the SE subreddit of phantom force driven mechanisms, however they're a lot more reliable and a lot less violent than what we've seen in SE1. I'd say that means that Clang still technically exists in SE2 but not in the form it did in SE1.

[Balmung]

Too be fair: Clang exists also in real life. If you do something with physics it always can break. Moving parts means stress on material and on one point it can always break. ;)

But sure, it shouldn't break as it does in SE1 often. Especially because you can not improve stuff like pistons with other materials and a bit other build up like in real life. But clang is always a part of a physic engine or it wouldn't be a physic engine, if that makes any sense.

[Karmaterrorᵁᴷ]

Originally posted by Balmung:

Too be fair: Clang exists also in real life. If you do something with physics it always can break. Moving parts means stress on material and on one point it can always break. ;)

But sure, it shouldn't break as it does in SE1 often. Especially because you can not improve stuff like pistons with other materials and a bit other build up like in real life. But clang is always a part of a physic engine or it wouldn't be a physic engine, if that makes any sense.

Internal forces do not exist in real life, For example if you are sat inside a car, and push on the dashboard you will not make the car roll forwards because you are pressing against the object. You need to have your feet on the ground then you create an external force that can effect the object.

This is not about the strength of the materials, its about how the game applies force in a closed system. For example a piton pushing on a frame making an object accelerate... should not be possible.

The result was piston drives 10x more powerful than thrusters, or ungodly rotor drives that adjusted rotor offset to produce massive internal forces that act as external ones. All in violation of multiple laws of physics lol

[Balmung]

Ok, that are good points. Thought way too short here. XD

[Halle]

This is only from a Multiplayer perspective and iam reffering to SE1. Space Engineers 1 as a solo game have been a pretty solid experience. But playing solo is boring in the long run.
The biggest problem with Rotors and Pistons etc. isn´t so much that they break under certain (often unintentional) circumstances, it´s the general increase in latency (lag) they cause.
This lag is only bested by the 'player joining a server' lag which lasts for about 5? seconds. So when a player joins a server it will lag for ~5 seconds. That lag is unaccaptable.

The server itself shouldnt lag either when a giant spaceship consisting of alot of blocks is lagging down another player because of lack of rendering performance. That should be a local problem for that player. I understand that server owners will limit the creation sizes in order for everyone to have an equal experience, but my giant spaceship shouldn´t bother anyone if they are not in in rendering range.

I still have fond memories of SE1 when me and some friends built a giant space station along with even bigger ships. One of my friends decided to combine his super carrier with his battleship thus creating a giant beast which he called the "Cigarette". It was so large that the game woulndt allow the full size of it to render at the same time. And when people came in the vincinity of the ship being all still without guns on or anything, they would just insta crash to desktop.

But the majority of materials to build his ship came from what could have been a 1:10 scale or something of a working Starcraft Battlecruiser built by a rival clan. That Starcraft Battlecruiser was so accurate and cool looking. It´s still is the most beautiful ship i've seen in Space Engineers. I begged my friend not to grind it down (after we spent half a day disabling all turret defenses), but my friend just calmly told me that the needs to feed the "Cigarette"...

To summarize. Fix the lag or we won´t be playing Space engineers 2. We have allready given up on SE1 because of the lag issues. Fixing the lag should be your number 1 priority, if it´snt it just evidence that you can´t manage it.

[DakotaHartwig215]

Originally posted by Balmung:

The biggest issue on SE1 is the Havok physic Engine Version. As SE1 was made, Physic Engines where not so really stable and cause a lot of issues. Keen could improve it over the years (the first few years it was even more critical) but it is still the old Version of Havok.

SE2 use a much newer (when not the newest) version of the Havok physic engine, They made some tests some time ago of different physic engines and the actual Havok was not only better as all others they tested, it looks also very very stable. A day and night different difference to SE1.

That said, using it in SE2 instead of a test with Unreal Engine is a bit a different thing. But that physic that is already in SE2 shows already a good stability.

An "rotor" try:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWb9jE8ySmc

He also tried a lot of such things where physic is involved. But because SE2 has a feature where no damage is happen when it is under 20m/s only physic can do something wrong here, not block damage. Maybe this feature also helps later on rotors/motors/pistons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYzlfSxXTKM

I thought Keen was making their own engine Vrage3 for SE2?

[Balmung]

Originally posted by DakotaHartwig215:

I thought Keen was making their own engine Vrage3 for SE2?

Well, when I search for example in Game2\VRage.Physics.xml there are some "Havok" stuff mentioned inside. So I'm sure they still use Havok like on SE1.

Edit: Ah, there is a Licenses.txt file inside the game folder:

"We would like to thanks all our partners that helped us with the Space Engineers 2 development:


FMOD (https://www.fmod.com/)
Portions of this software utilize FMOD Engine from Firelight Technologies.


HAVOK (https://www.havok.com/)
We use Microsoft Havok Technology, middleware and tools used to develop the game.


NVIDIA (https://www.nvidia.com/)
We use NVIDIA technology, including NVIDIA hardware to develop the game.


SpeedTree (https://store.speedtree.com/)
Portions of this software utilize SpeedTree® technology (©2024 provided by Unity Technologies SF). All rights reserved."

So that is the stuff they licensed to make SE2.