Widescreen?

[-=THe M@TRiX=- [DK]]

Does it support widescreen? Video trailer and screenshots are all 4:3.

[Beegor Bucleor]

Първоначално публикувано от Artur:

The thing with 4:3 backgrounds is that it's impossible to get them to scale to a widescreen format without AI to fill in the blank holes.
It's a different story with backgrounds that are able to scroll due to broader map-layouts.

It was possible with Chrono Trigger because the sprite-backgrounds outside of the black borders actually exist and it's just a matter of removing the borders.

Again, this is not true.

There are lots of scenes in Chrono Trigger which don't have background art that fills up more than a 4:3, and there very well might even be more scenes in CT which don't fill up a 16:9 perspective than there are in Chrono Cross. In the Steam version of Chrono Trigger, there are lots, and lots of scenes which can't fill a 16:9 perspective, let alone a 21:9 perspective. I included lots of examples of such scenes in the last post I quoted in my previous post in this thread.

No AI is needed. Simply adding black bars to the sides of backgrounds which don't fill up a widescreen perspective solves the matter.

[Artur]

Първоначално публикувано от Beegor Bucleor:

In the Steam version of Chrono Trigger, there are lots, and lots of scenes which can't fill a 16:9 perspective, let alone a 21:9 perspective. I included lots of examples of such scenes in the last post I quoted in my previous post in this thread.

And yet there's still cells that are stuck at 4:3 despite the game being widescreen now.
The other backgrounds just happen to exist outside of the 4:3 format, that's all there is to it.
I doubt Square bothered to actually modify/add missing sprites to the game just to enable widescreen universally.

[Beegor Bucleor]

Първоначално публикувано от Artur:

Първоначално публикувано от Beegor Bucleor:

In the Steam version of Chrono Trigger, there are lots, and lots of scenes which can't fill a 16:9 perspective, let alone a 21:9 perspective. I included lots of examples of such scenes in the last post I quoted in my previous post in this thread.

And yet there's still cells that are stuck at 4:3 despite the game being widescreen now.
The other backgrounds just happen to exist outside of the 4:3 format, that's all there is to it.
I doubt Square bothered to actually modify/add missing sprites to the game just to enable widescreen universally.

My posts say that very thing, as it makes the point that any game having scenes which can't fill a widescreen perspective doesn't mean the game can't run in widescreen without distorting the image.

Tons of scenes in Chrono Trigger don't fill a widescreen perspective. They just black bars at the sides of the screen in those cases. One of my previous posts, which I quoted on the previous page, gives a list of examples of such scenes in Chrono Trigger, with video clips of them.

I don't think any backgrounds need modification to make them work in widescreen. Just have a blackness behind the artwork, so wherever the artwork can display, it's just blackness. And have the scenes which can't pan in widescreen be fixed and horizontally-centered. There were already scenes in the original Chrono Cross that did this on the PS1.

[Artur]

It's not a perfect solution but the best they could do in order to enable widescreen and I'm 100% behind the idea.
They definitely should've gone the extra mile if they already bothered to get the original artist to redraw the character portraits(which look outstanding btw) and even gave the player the option to choose between new and old.

[-=THe M@TRiX=- [DK]]

Chrono trigger's 16:9 implementation is a fine example of how it should be done.

[Beegor Bucleor]

Първоначално публикувано от -=THe M@TRiX=- DK:

Chrono trigger's 16:9 implementation is a fine example of how it should be done.

Exactly.

People saying that Chrono Cross can't have proper widescreen because it has pre-rendered backgrounds (in other words, the backgrounds are just a static image) don't know what they're talking about, and have possibly been infected by Gabby's chronic inventive blathering.

If someone would like to know how Chrono Trigger actually handles widescreen perspectives with lots of artwork designed for 4:3 perspectives, I've previously explained it in these posts:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1133760/discussions/0/3186864020194999425/?ctp=9#c3181237058692935039

If you want the TLDR version, look at the last quoted post in my post - the one with all the videos.

Chrono Cross can implement widescreen exactly the same way that Chrono Trigger has done. That SE aren't doing it for Cross might indicate that it's a different team working on Cross than worked on Trigger, and that the Cross team doesn't want to make the effort.

I think it would be great if Cross added proper widescreen support. But even if Cross won't have it, I think it'd be good that people not rationalise why Cross doesn't have it using made-up and false explanations. It has nothing to do with Cross using pre-rendered / static images as backgrounds.


One possible actual explanation I can think of why widescreen might not be practical in Cross - but this is only a theory and not to be taken as fact - is that NPC AI and animations might be programmed to kick in only when a player is right next to a 4:3 perspective's range of the model, and so making scenes use 16:9 environments might break some thing: either making NPCs not appear in time or appearing to be lifeless before they are about to enter the 4:3 perspective, or triggering their scripted behaviours too early.

And, if SE don't have the original source code for Cross but are running it in an emulator, then maybe they don't have the means to adjust NPC behaviour to adapt to widescreen perspectives.

But that's just an idea, and I wouldn't let SE off the hook using it or other theories that SE haven't confirmed to be the case.

[yugdesiral]

omg you fools, chrono trigger was in 4:3 but the maps were usually much larger than screensize so they could simply extend the screen to encompass what they needed. in cross the ART is in 4:3 and one painting often took up the whole screen. true with some of the larger backgrounds it may be possible to extend but many of the backgrounds it simply would not work. they'd have to either redraw the 20 year old backgrounds and extend them or they'd have to use an obnoxious zoom that would destroy the composition, or they'd have to use black borders which would entirely defeat the purpose of making it widescreen in the first place. this isn't freaking rocket science. you guys are comparing large maps with single screen art, they don't work the same. smh

Първоначално публикувано от Beegor Bucleor:

Simply adding black bars to the sides of backgrounds which don't fill up a widescreen perspective solves the matter.

that would be like half the game..

[Beegor Bucleor]

Първоначално публикувано от yugdesiral:

omg you fools, chrono trigger was in 4:3 but the maps were usually much larger than screensize so they could simply extend the screen to encompass what they needed.

No, that's not simply what was done with Chrono Trigger to make it work in widescreen. Nothing was changed about the environments in Trigger at all to make the game widescreen in the PC release of Trigger, despite there being as many or more 4:3 environments in Trigger than in Cross.

What is actually done in Trigger for PC is environments which can handle widescreen are displayed in full widescreen, while the very large number of environments which can't handle widescreen simply have black bars at the sides of the screen. Cross would do the same thing. If you didn't notice the perspective constantly changing in Trigger, then you've disproved your claim that it would be obnoxious in Cross.

in cross the ART is in 4:3 and one painting often took up the whole screen.

There are probably as many or more 4:3 environments in Trigger as there are in Cross.

The backgrounds being a single image instead of tiled images has literally nothing to do with the topic of widescreen.

true with some of the larger backgrounds it may be possible to extend but many of the backgrounds it simply would not work. they'd have to either redraw the 20 year old backgrounds and extend them or they'd have to use an obnoxious zoom that would destroy the composition, or they'd have to use black borders which would entirely defeat the purpose of making it widescreen in the first place. this isn't freaking rocket science. you guys are comparing large maps with single screen art, they don't work the same. smh

Absolutely none of that is true. In regards to adapting to widescreen, it doesn't matter whether an environment is made of tiles or whether it's a single image. It's only the size that matters. And the majority of Cross' environments are large enough to accommodate widescreen. See for yourself (and be sure to click the 'Load More Images' button at the bottom, to see them all):

https://imgur.com/a/o17a5At

Cross is as suited to widescreen as Trigger is, and widescreen in Cross would work exactly the same way it works in Trigger. This has already been explained with examples given. If you'd like to learn what the actual situation is, and how it can be implemented in Cross, read this:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1133760/discussions/0/3186864020194999425/?ctp=9#c3181237058692935039

Do you think the huge number of scenes in Trigger PC with black bars at the sides of the screen has defeated the purpose of making Trigger support widescreen? It seems that nobody even noticed that Trigger constantly switches between widescreen and sub-widescreen-with-black-bars until it was pointed out to them.

It might not be rocket science, but apparently it is still beyond the obvious noticing of many people.

Първоначално публикувано от Beegor Bucleor:

Simply adding black bars to the sides of backgrounds which don't fill up a widescreen perspective solves the matter.

that would be like half the game..

That's as much not true about Cross as it wouldn't be about Trigger. The link to the art for Cross' backgrounds shows how not true that is for Cross.

But it wouldn't matter even if it were true. Trigger on PC is constantly switching between full widescreen perspective and sub-widescreen perspective with black bars at the sides of the screen. Play Trigger for 30 minutes and you'll encounter the game switching between full-widescreen and 4:3 with black bars at the sides - sometimes many times within that 30 minutes of playing. Did you find it obnoxious in Trigger, and did you even notice it happening?

If Trigger is suited for widescreen, so is Cross.

[yugdesiral]

It's been many years since I played Cross and my memory is definitely off because those backgrounds are much larger than I remember. Good god they're gorgeous. Thanks for the link. I am quite the fool and I concur with everything you wrote.

[Beegor Bucleor]

Първоначално публикувано от yugdesiral:

It's been many years since I played Cross and my memory is definitely off because those backgrounds are much larger than I remember. Good god they're gorgeous. Thanks for the link. I am quite the fool and I concur with everything you wrote.

OK, no worries. Cheers.

By the way, those particular scenes have been upscaled to 4k with AI. So, unless SE are also going to upscale the backgrounds in the PC release of Cross (I don't think I've seen evidence of that, so far), those uploads look better than what the backgrounds in the PC version of Cross will.

Here's a small bit of info about those 4k upscaled Cross background images:

https://www.reddit.com/r/GameUpscale/comments/bgimod/chrono_cross_4x_upscaled_backgrounds_gigapixel_ai/

Stumbled across here today after reading about the Fallout NV AI Hi-Res pack, and wanted to give it a shot. Chrono Cross is one of my all time favorite games, so I figured why not?

Using the image dump posted here, I downloaded the entire set, and then ran it through Gigapixel AI on 4x (Suppress Noise & Remove Blue both set to Medium), then re-upped the set to imgur.

Not sure if this is beneficial to anyone looking to remaster the game, but I figured here would be a good place to start off posting progress.

Any tips/questions/comments/etc. please let me know!

Here are some comparisons of the original shots with the AI-upscaled versions. You can slide the bar back and forth to see how different the AI-upscaled versions are:

https://imgsli.com/MzM1Ng
https://imgsli.com/MzM1OA

The originals still look good, though.

[Sharticus:DestroyerOfToilets]

No. They literally CAN'T do widescreen.

[Shinji]

Someone hacked widescreen into the PSX version of Chrono Cross via emulator and the battle transition is all glitchy so if they were to do widescreen on the PC version and did it the simple way (just remove the fixed black bars) then (a) it may show NPCs that are not supposed to be visible and (b) they would have to fix transitions that did not account for widescreen.

[Beegor Bucleor]

Първоначално публикувано от TimeTurner:

No. They literally CAN'T do widescreen.

If you're referring to claims about because of how Cross' artwork is, then you'd be wrong. If you're referring to something else that has nothing to do with the artwork, then it could be a possibility, but you should mention why you think that.

Първоначално публикувано от Shinji:

Someone hacked widescreen into the PSX version of Chrono Cross via emulator and the battle transition is all glitchy so if they were to do widescreen on the PC version and did it the simple way (just remove the fixed black bars) then (a) it may show NPCs that are not supposed to be visible and (b) they would have to fix transitions that did not account for widescreen.

Regarding NPCs appearing too soon, before they're supposed to be seen, I mentioned that possibility in a previous comment.

Regarding battle transitions, they could be left with black bars at the sides, or use some effect that mirrors the colours of the viewport into the rest of the perspective to add to the transition.

[lieutenantkirtar]

I don't know why you would assume the devs wouldn't be more likely to find a solution to glitchy transition just because a random hack didn't have a fix for it.

[V2C]

Mods do what Square Enix don't:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a68y4NbVDGc