"Drive" question

[Aenno]

There is a thing that suddenly bothering me. I'm not American, so it's possible I misunderstand something.

When I played Drive (last Memory of chapter 3), I had Romantic relationship with Cove, and set him to be my official boyfriend years ago (in my headcanon, it happened just some days after the end of Chapter 2). It's not, like, a secret, and I didn't got the idea that Cove is abhorring close contact with MC.

But, when Cove and MC came to Kyra's place, they make a fuzz about sleeping place, placing Cove to sleep on the floor. They're 18 years old, officially dating, bed isn't small and it's not like they're necessary horny teens who can't behave and not to wake up everybody around; why there isn't even an option to propose them share a bed? Is it cultural thing or what?

[Verlys Gaming LIfe]

I never thought of it that way, but maybe it is a cultural difference, but I don't know if any parents that would, with kids that just graduated, that they still consider their "kids" to be like, 'why don't you guys just share the bed in his room".

just because parents may "know" their kids are dating it doesn't mean they want to just be like "hey, go have sex now" which is what it sounds like.

so, making a ritual out of separating them even if they are very aware that it probably will not stay that way they are not involving themselves in it.

[Aenno]

I think it can be cultural difference - or maybe just my personal experience playing too much.

Still, I can understand Kyra wouldn't blatantly offer it. I can't imagine why wouldn't MC (with all the spectrum, including, I suppose, quite a seductive route in ORCA event) offer it directly. It was my first solution in my head when I played, and it was a solution that was quite casually offered to me and by me in my 16-17. And it was exactly sleeping arrangements, not sexual one.

[Verlys Gaming LIfe]

the game is still family friendly it assumes nothing happens before the are 18. it's just the way it has to be because that's the legal age of adulthood here in the states. of course, teens still mess around, just like the do everywhere, but gppatch is trying to avoid directly talking about it in this game. to keep it family friendly. that's why things don't get real romantic until they are 18. not because it never happens in the real world.

plus, as you know, the sleeping arrangement is actually just the set up for dealing with Cove's actual problem *with* sharing the bed with the MC. it would be real weird to set that up like it they had already been sharing a bed a lot and then all of a sudden Cove couldn't do so. and as someone that is also a demi, like Cove is, please don't discount his discomfort as a nonissue. as Cove mentions a few times during the game. there are a lot of things I wish I was comfortable doing, but I just am not and it takes time and patience and care to get past someone boundries. it's why I love this game so much. :)

[Aenno]

Ok, first of all, to be absolutely clear - I make a distinction between "sharing a bed" (as, sleeping in the same bed) and "sexual interaction". And also, I would use my route describing what happened, with Neutrlal-Frendship-Fond line, doing memories "left to right, DLC ones first", and with MC being emotionally stable direct cis female without major issues - I'm perfectly understand that it's not the only one.

1. In my route it was perfectly clear that Cove and MC both are absolutely normal with physical contact (more then me, for example). They kiss, they hug, they cuddle, they use the same couch (Drive begins with Cove and MC together in the same couch, with MC using Cove as a cushion). The situation of being in the same bed is not an issue for them since "Road Trip" at best.

2. In my route it was perfectly clear that Cove and MC are absolutely attracted to each other; like, I think, it was very clear in "Charity". Cove is demisexual; still, him and MC definitely hit the "having emotional attachment" requirement; at this point of the game it's crystal that he's MCsexual no matter other spheres of his sexuality. And in his thirteen Cove does use sexual evaluations (and yes, he does the same in his eighteen) - he says that anklets are sexy, so it should mean something for him.

3. The problem, as far I understand it, not about Cove being a demi. It's not boundaries problem but thresholds problem: he's very, very, VERY attracted to MC, up to a situation where he can literally lose a control when they're in bed together. And, for him, starting to have sex with MC is definitely a change, big change, and he believes he has no control of what happens next, as he don't know if she (and Cove himself) would like it, [and they definitely lack contraception there], and what's next, and how their relationships would change, and what's next, and how would Kyra react, and how their friends would react, and what would Ma and Mom say, and... AAAARGH BREAKDOWN RUN AWAY. Cove is terrified by changes and lack of control.


And also yes, it's kinda weird when formative point of Road Trip is them sharing a bed, and, well, formative point of Sleepover is them sharing a bed (yes, I remember they were eight), and the problem of them sharing a bed (for eighteen years old) never raised up until Drive, but somehow MC doesn't even offer it when discussing sleeping arrangements, but perfectly ok with offering it later. Especially when it made very, very clear that all sides believes that sleeping on the floor is less comfort that sleeping in a bed.

That's the thing - I understand perfectly Cove's reaction, but I feel this setup very artificial, first (and possibly only) time in the game. Obvious reactions are blocked just to create a setup. So, as it's the only point in the game, it was a real headscratcher for me.

(It's also the only memory in game where I actually wanted to hit Cove. I felt his unload on MC so weird and unfair that it was absolutely OOC for me.)

[Verlys Gaming LIfe]

that's my point. it's not out of character for Cove at all. you may have headcanoned that your MC and Cove had sharred a bed many times but they had not. they did one time, maybe, during a road trip. which restulted in him being embarassed by being found out by his parents the next morning or worse everyone finding out if you tried to kiss him.

yes, of course Cove is in love and attracted to the MC if that's what is set. but he is always a demisexual. that never changes. and I'm sorry to tell you as I demi we are difficult to love because it takes baby steps for us to be comfortable with romantic stuff because we aren't used to feeling them. we are asexual most of our lives and then bang we feel attraction to someone. so when Cove is trying to explain those things he's speaking the truth in a very honest believable way.

[Aenno]

I believe I wasn't clear enough. I have no problem with him running away, that's good. But him literally enforcing a situation of him sleeping on the floor and then lashing out on MC for that is bad.

Again, I have no problem with Cove being freak out. Still, from Drive I don't feel it was expected situation for MC when she's offering to share a bed, right?

[Verlys Gaming LIfe]

you do know, he was kind of joking.. right....he realized that his family always had him on the floor for sleepovers and your family always had him on the floor for sleepovers as well. it just dawned on him that that's the way it always was. there's no real reason to get all bent out of shape over it. that's literally the sleeping arrangement that it's always been with the two of you. him on the floor and your mc on the bed.

[Oljum]

Originally posted by Aenno:

3. The problem, as far I understand it, not about Cove being a demi. It's not boundaries problem but thresholds problem: he's very, very, VERY attracted to MC, up to a situation where he can literally lose a control when they're in bed together. And, for him, starting to have sex with MC is definitely a change, big change, and he believes he has no control of what happens next, as he don't know if she (and Cove himself) would like it, [and they definitely lack contraception there], and what's next, and how their relationships would change, and what's next, and how would Kyra react, and how their friends would react, and what would Ma and Mom say, and... AAAARGH BREAKDOWN RUN AWAY. Cove is terrified by changes and lack of control.


And also yes, it's kinda weird when formative point of Road Trip is them sharing a bed, and, well, formative point of Sleepover is them sharing a bed (yes, I remember they were eight), and the problem of them sharing a bed (for eighteen years old) never raised up until Drive, but somehow MC doesn't even offer it when discussing sleeping arrangements, but perfectly ok with offering it later. Especially when it made very, very clear that all sides believes that sleeping on the floor is less comfort that sleeping in a bed.

That's the thing - I understand perfectly Cove's reaction, but I feel this setup very artificial, first (and possibly only) time in the game. Obvious reactions are blocked just to create a setup. So, as it's the only point in the game, it was a real headscratcher for me.

(It's also the only memory in game where I actually wanted to hit Cove. I felt his unload on MC so weird and unfair that it was absolutely OOC for me.)

Well, in the end of Step 3 if MC walk into Cove's room and will stay in the same bed with him, in the morning Cliff/ Mr. Holden will arive and mention that he was just a bit elder than his son when he learned he's gonna became father.
So being not only a child of young (if not teenaged) parents whose later get divorce may brought also some kind of mental block.

Also "sharing bed" or "sleeping in one room" may be intimatiing or comforting thing, but without sexual meaning. So also may to seem less proplematic for some people.

[Aenno]

Originally posted by Verlys Gaming LIfe:

you do know, he was kind of joking.. right....he realized that his family always had him on the floor for sleepovers and your family always had him on the floor for sleepovers as well. it just dawned on him that that's the way it always was. there's no real reason to get all bent out of shape over it. that's literally the sleeping arrangement that it's always been with the two of you. him on the floor and your mc on the bed.

...and this time it was himself, yes. Because MC can (and in my case was) insisting on sleeping on the coach in live room.
Still, he was not joking. Game describe him here: "you felt really bad about the whole thing, but Cove was too hysterical to listen"; "his eyebrows were angled with disbelief, his frown wobbly in shock", he was snarky and pouting.
He started to joke after he unload and (if) MC kinda put a reason here, but he wasn't really when he started it.

Originally posted by Oljum:

Well, in the end of Step 3 if MC walk into Cove's room and will stay in the same bed with him, in the morning Cliff/ Mr. Holden will arive and mention that he was just a bit elder than his son when he learned he's gonna became father.
So being not only a child of young (if not teenaged) parents whose later get divorce may brought also some kind of mental block.

Also "sharing bed" or "sleeping in one room" may be intimatiing or comforting thing, but without sexual meaning. So also may to seem less proplematic for some people.

*scratching a head*
I believe I totally wasn't clear, because that - ""sharing bed" or "sleeping in one room" may be intimatiing or comforting thing, but without sexual meaning" - is my point.
I don't understand why MC or Kyra would brought it as an idea; it's not like sharing a bed is *necessary* sexual meaning, and it's wouldn't be exactly a crime even if it would be. In my experience, a situation when two young adults who are a couple has a problem as: "ok, we have just two sleeping places, it wouldn't be appropriate to put a guest onto couch, and second person don't want to sleep on couch" sharing a bed would be first solution. In my perspective, it would be weird for them NOT to share a bed. But, as I said, maybe it's cultural thing, or maybe my personal experience is really uncommon. That's what I was asking.

I still think that it's "he's demisexual" less and "he's a traumated teen who has BIG control issues and BIG fear of changes" more. But whatever.

[Verlys Gaming LIfe]

I don't mean to upset you at all, i'm sorry if I'm coming off that way. I'm just trying to explain from a person that is demi. even sharing a bed with someone. non sexual that you are attracted to is very uncomfortable for the first time. expecially if you're like cove and you've never done so before, or in this case you're feelings have changed dramatically since you were 13. He's never shared a bed with anyone. he's a single child. so there is no experince with having someone beside him in a bed. I know the first time I ever slept next to someone I had feelings for my body freaked out on me. I didn't do like Cove and jump out of the bed, but I also have high anxiety and hate for anyone to know when I have an anxiety attack for some reason. expecually for something I feel is stupid. like, my body freaking over things a "normal" person does every day.

Cove would have never suggested straight off that you're mc share the bed with him because it would have never crossed his mind, well, that's not true, but there was no way he'd ever do that. case in point excatly what happened when he attempted just laying beside your mc. there is no trauma there, it's just a big load of anxiety from a body that doens't work the same way as one that is sexual all the time. demis are not. it's like getting into the shower in the morning when the water is still freezing. that jolt to the body. all of a sudden your body is like, what? I feel something, since when? I've never felt anything before, why is it freaking out now?

as for the floor thing, haven't you noticed by now that Cove is kinda overdramatic about a lot of things? lol that's why most of the responses where to baby him. it really wasn't supposed to be a big deal.

[Aenno]

> even sharing a bed with someone. non sexual that you are attracted to is very uncomfortable for the first time. expecially if you're like cove and you've never done so before,
As, I believe, not demi (I'm not sure, never really interested; I usually describe myself as "asexual on practice"), I think you project too many here on his sexuality. You don't need to be demi to be anxious to have sex first time (especially with a person who also would have sex first time), or to be uncomfortable by wanting to have sex and being blocked. It's not unique for your sexuality, cis people with normal libido can feel the same.
It's not like Cove is upset by just being close to MC (hell, it's hard not to use name I used, game is wonderful).

> it's like getting into the shower in the morning when the water is still freezing. that jolt to the body. all of a sudden your body is like, what? I feel something, since when? I've never felt anything before, why is it freaking out now?
I'm sorry again, but you don't need to tell me what's sudden arousal anxiety is. :) I know it. More then that, for us, "normal people", it's self-sustained loop - you get arousal => you get anxiety => you get more anxiety for being sexually inadequate => you get more anxiety for getting more anxiety for being sexually inadequate => ...
(somewhere here some kind of very nasty stuff can happen; or not exactly very nasty, like, you just get your frustration on your partner who would be like, what?!)

But again, and please, I really mean it. I don't have a problem with Cove not offering it. He has problems (not his sexuality, but he IS overreacting, and it's problem, and boy really need a session of family therapy). I can, with a stretch, understand why wouldn't Kyra offer it. But why wouldn't MC offer it? Why isn't it obvious solution for *her* (to be, say, rejected, like it's rejected to be put onto couch or on the floor).

> as for the floor thing, haven't you noticed by now that Cove is kinda overdramatic about a lot of things? lol that's why most of the responses where to baby him. it really wasn't supposed to be a big deal.
Yes - and for some things he's overdramatic it's about him being really upset.
Still, I think we can trust MC evaluation, and if she believes he's too hysterical to react on her, he IS; if it takes a kind of diffusal from her to make him joke, it's fair to accept he wasn't joking. Don't you think?
Well, he does kind of joking - I mean, he's definitely sarcastic and spiteful (I mean, that's what the game directly said - and, I think, with disclaimer they did in tutorial we can trust that they mean what they written, no?), and I don't think he really believed that MC somehow on fault here. That's exactly why it's unfair.

[Verlys Gaming LIfe]

It's Kyra's home. where the MC sleeps is not the MC's decision. I don't see why it would be. I wouldn't presume where I was sleeping in someone else's home even if it was my boyfriend. maybe it *is* a cultrual thing? expecially if I was only 18 and barely out of high school.

and Cove's overeaction to him always sleeping on the floor? again, I really don't think it was supposed to be all the big of a deal. yes, he really freaked out about it, but as I said, most of the responses were to baby him about it. because it was not supposed to be that serious. he was overreacting over nothing. no, it was not the MC's fault. he as upset at the situation not the MC. and pouting like a child about it.


I think you might be confused. I wasn't talking about sex at all. I was literally talking about just laying next to someone. that, in it'self was enough to freak my body out. I was also talking about a demi just having feelings for someone at all. I again don't mean sex. I just mean finding out you like someone. It's like jumping off the deep end. " I don't know what's going on here and why this is happening to me?" lol you go from never having feelings for anyone or anyting, no celebs no, nothing, to "what the hell are these? and what do I do with them?" :) I, like, generally don't think about sex at all, so It wasn't even on my mind when I wrote out my previous statement. nothing was about sexual arousal. at this point in my life I dont' even know who she is anymore. lol I was literally talking about just generally having feelings for someone that you like and hopefully love. that's the shock to the system I was refering to. to go from nothing to having feelings is mindblowing.

[Aenno]

> It's Kyra's home. where the MC sleeps is not the MC's decision.
*headscratch again*
But it is? I mean, they discussed it by themselves, and Kyra intervened only when they came to deadlock by saying - ok, if you can't decide it, I invoke "my home my rules" prerogative, MC sleeping in the bed, end of discussion.
And then, it's up to MC to decide where would Cove sleep, on the floor or on the couch in the living room, he prefers floor, (Kyra prefers couch), but ultimately it's MC decision.
And, I don't know, it's exactly fitting my experience. It's polite to ask a guest where they would prefer to sleep, if there is a choice.

> I don't know what's going on here and why this is happening to me?" lol you go from never having feelings for anyone or anyting, no celebs no, nothing, to "what the hell are these? and what do I do with them?"
I'm sorry, what's "feeling" we're speaking here? I mean, no, on this level of relationships Cove perfectly knows who MC is, directly declare more then once that he DOES have feelings, and even describe how it would be more feelings like that for him. Anklets. He literally describe them as "sexy".

[Verlys Gaming LIfe]

I think we need to stop. we're just going to keep having a circular convo. you're clearly not understanding where i'm coming from and that's ok. All I was pointing out is that at anytime the sleeping arragments ...because it was Kyra's house...would never have been "I'm going to sleep in Cove's room" if you see that as a non issue than Yes, it's a cultral issue. we are probably more conservative over here. if the two were married than it wouldn't matter, but two unmarried barely adults visiting one of the parent's homes. nah, they wouldn't share a room.

and again expecially not these two who have never shared bed before. I dont' see why the MC would ever assume they would now. that's why all proposed ideas were seperate areas.
it's the way it's always been.

[Kurozora Konoi]

I didn't read everything you guys said since it was a long conversation, but I'll offer my fresh opinion - it's always good to have a second one, right?

So, I'm not from the US and never been there, but I didn't feel like it was a cultural difference - it seemed totally natural to me, to be honest?
Cove and my MC were dating for a while at this point too, and I think Cove was as much at ease as he can be with the MC at this point. But considering Cove is relatively shy and an only child, I feel like it would be very awkward and stress inducing for him to sleep with someone - even in a pure "just sleeping" way. Things like that always seemed to be a big deal to him.
Not only that, but well, they're at Kyra's home at that point, and with Cove being pretty shy, it's understandable. Not to mention how embarassed he was after being discovered sleeping with the MC during the road trip. I think it's very easy to get nervous and too overwhelmed in these cases. At least for someone like Cove. I mean, up until that point, I didn't feel like Cove and the MC went as far as sleeping in the same bed at any given point, except that thing during the road trip, and even when they were kids Cove was unconfortable with even sleeping in the SAME ROOM as the MC, so yeah - baby steps for him.

Now, it may seem more natural to me since my MC is also demisexual. He's bold and brave and brash, even though he's always very gentle with Cove, so he wouldn't be shy about it, and he wished for more closeness and cuddles and stuff like that, but he rarely pushes it at all and waits for Cove, since he has a personal understanding of needing to be "in the mood". It's just that for him, cuddles and sleeping in the same bed and stuff like that are easy - only actual intimate relationships are something harder, while for Cove, it's more general.


On a side note, I'm ace/aro so something like that never happened in my life to begin with, but my mom is open minded and cool with things like that, so if I wasn't the way I am and if I had boyfriends or girlfriends, she would have asked us if we were planning on sharing a bed or not (she would have done so even before me having 18 years old, to be honest). Kyra is not so different from my mother in a lot of regards, so I think she would be okay too, but I also think she knows her son is very uneasy with things like that, no matter if he told her he's demisexual or not, so she wouldn't want to put him in the spot and risk the MC saying "yes, we'll share a bed!" and have Cove be uneasy after that.