Healing Relics and upgrading

[rav]

I feel like there should be a more reliable way to get your hands on a healing relic.
currently, if you dont get a healing relic, the game is much more difficult, which would be fine in itself if there wasnt some really powerful healing relics that make the game so much easier.

for me personally if i dont get a healing relic i already know in my head "ok this run i will not be succesful"

especially the ones that give 5/10/15% hp when entering a roomfeel super strong and make it so much easier. - i think those could even be nerfed to 5/10%. but maybe increase rarity


Also what i think would maybe be cool is if you could choose a starting relic, that you can upgrade throughout the run, instead of picking a new one.
Or maybe even a new room type that allows you to upgrade either a relic or weapon by +1 ( kinda like the pomgrenade in hades )

[OddJuniper]

There's a huge difference in my success rate between runs where you get healing, and runs when you don't. The random drops should shift the gameplay in interesting ways, not make the game super easy or super hard. I'd really like to see us have some baseline healing, or remove healing totally and balance the game around that.

[rav]

yeah i agree, maybe a blessing that heals for greed kills or something along these lines

[HealthBar]

The lack of healing in the current state makes the gameplay quite stressful. Even Dark Souls gives you potions. The game demands players to dodge everything or die trying.

I won T'amok's Awakening all thanks to getting a healing Relic just before the final champion. They make a lot of difference in terms of difficulty. I'd appreciate some baseline healing so we can have some breathing room.

EDIT : Just defeated Path to Cruelty (https://imgur.com/ndcXOJD), but I still think obtaining healing options is too vital, they don't feel like "options" anymore.

[Sharethepain]

There are a lot of different ways to heal yourself though, you don’t necessarily need that pass through door to heal to survive. Theres a relic for enviroment kill heals, gold offerings heal, critical damage healing, heal 1% per kill on weapons, heal x % after curse is lifted, you just have to do with one of them, I dont believe you dont find a single one of these sources in your playthrough. Even in the worst case you dont find anything theres always havens after boss where you can heal to full health at the cost of like half the corruption meter.

[DrunkHobo]

I beaten everything but hard mode and have never seen this heal upon entering a room relic. I do use the gold offerings heal and always try to get a 1h that has 1% heal on kill just to give myself some more breathing room. It isn't necessary, but it sure would be nice to have.

[Sharethepain]

Try finding healing on critical hits instead and play with the Sacrificial Matana sword which always crits on single enemy, or use a spear since they always crit too. The critical healing is really busted, I outhealed myself with the fifth curse through half the game on hard mode.

[HealthBar]

Originally posted by Sharethepain:

There are a lot of different ways to heal yourself though, you don’t necessarily need that pass through door to heal to survive. Theres a relic for enviroment kill heals, gold offerings heal, critical damage healing, heal 1% per kill on weapons, heal x % after curse is lifted, you just have to do with one of them, I dont believe you dont find a single one of these sources in your playthrough. Even in the worst case you dont find anything theres always havens after boss where you can heal to full health at the cost of like half the corruption meter.

The problem isn't the number of healing options. All of those options except the Haven, are locked behind randomness. And because of the way the Haven is designed, the game demotes players from actually using it.

Players in this game have to make their choices based on the options currently provided, not with the assumption that healing options will eventually be given to them, because there's no guarantee. Purchasing +60% Healing increase when you don't have any options for healing is a risky move. A heavy focus on critical damage doesn't mean the game conveniently hands out a Critical Heals Relic.

Even when healing Relics and affixes are rewarded, they often don't fit the player's current loadout. Specific Relics such as Environmental Kill and Critical Heals are conditional and only provide minimal effect unless the loadout happens to support them. Afffixes are relatively more consistent and easier to proc; but there are weapon-level system and enemy scaling, meaning that one may not be able to hold on to a healing weapon forever.

And choosing Haven already means giving up an opportunity for Gold / Weapon / Relic, but the game penalizes Haven even further by adding Corruption costs. No matter how cheap the Corruption cost is, It gives players the perception that they are losing more even when they are trying to make a comeback.

In short, if a player didn't get a healing equipment, they must dodge everything or gimp themselves at the Haven. This alone puts a lot of pressure to the players and make the gameplay more stressful.

[Sharethepain]

Originally posted by HealthBar:

Originally posted by Sharethepain:

There are a lot of different ways to heal yourself though, you don’t necessarily need that pass through door to heal to survive. Theres a relic for enviroment kill heals, gold offerings heal, critical damage healing, heal 1% per kill on weapons, heal x % after curse is lifted, you just have to do with one of them, I dont believe you dont find a single one of these sources in your playthrough. Even in the worst case you dont find anything theres always havens after boss where you can heal to full health at the cost of like half the corruption meter.

The problem isn't the number of healing options. All of those options except the Haven, are locked behind randomness. And because of the way the Haven is designed, the game demotes players from actually using it.

Players in this game have to make their choices based on the options currently provided, not with the assumption that healing options will eventually be given to them, because there's no guarantee. Purchasing +60% Healing increase when you don't have any options for healing is a risky move. A heavy focus on critical damage doesn't mean the game conveniently hands out a Critical Heals Relic.

Even when healing Relics and affixes are rewarded, they often don't fit the player's current loadout. Specific Relics such as Environmental Kill and Critical Damage are conditional and only provide minimal effect unless the loadout happens to support them. Afffixes are relatively more consistent and easier to proc; but there are weapon-level system and enemy scaling, meaning that one may not be able to hold on to a healing weapon forever.

And choosing Haven already means giving up an opportunity for Gold / Weapon / Relic, but the game penalizes Haven even further by adding Corruption costs. No matter how cheap the Corruption cost is, It gives players the perception that they are losing more even when they are trying to make a comeback.

In short, if a player didn't get a healing equipment, they must dodge everything or gimp themselves at the Haven. This alone puts a lot of pressure to the players and make the gameplay more stressful.

I get your point, but that’s how all roguelikes are in the end, it’s the RNG we all love and hate. I suppose there should be some kind of health flask to support people who need healing. Haven isn’t as punishing as you make it out to be though, you can get full health in about 60 corruption, that’s pretty cheap considering you could have over two thousand health or something.

If you don’t get hit by corruption attacks and don’t offer blood more than once per boss the Haven cost really won’t be a heavy burden on you. Even then if you get a curse because of Haven, unless it’s shadow word or a fifth one it won’t matter at all.

I have personally already gotten to the point where I get 14 or so perfect rooms in row so I literally don’t need any healing anymore, maybe it’s just about getting better and not getting hit as stupid as it sounds.

[OddJuniper]

Originally posted by Sharethepain:

I get your point, but that’s how all roguelikes are in the end, it’s the RNG we all love and hate.

There are plenty of roguelikes that don't have random healing. Getting a heal at the start of your run or at the end isn't interesting. Getting different weapons or different stats or different abilities is interesting. It changes how you play the game.

[Prometheus]

I think its intended we become good at parrying. Considering you can parry out of any animation lock except heavy weapons (which stun every hit so, tradeoffs).

[HealthBar]

Originally posted by Sharethepain:

I get your point, but that’s how all roguelikes are in the end, it’s the RNG we all love and hate. I suppose there should be some kind of health flask to support people who need healing. Haven isn’t as punishing as you make it out to be though, you can get full health in about 60 corruption, that’s pretty cheap considering you could have over two thousand health or something.

If you don’t get hit by corruption attacks and don’t offer blood more than once per boss the Haven cost really won’t be a heavy burden on you. Even then if you get a curse because of Haven, unless it’s shadow word or a fifth one it won’t matter at all.

I have personally already gotten to the point where I get 14 or so perfect rooms in row so I literally don’t need any healing anymore, maybe it’s just about getting better and not getting hit as stupid as it sounds.

I understand that eventually, players who keep attempting after many failures become hardened and untouchable like you.

But I also hope you understand that not all players have the same level of skill and endurance as you do. The final boss on <Path to Cruelty> does around 400 damage with each basic-attack. A single mistake is punishing enough to render in-combat healing (such as Critical Heals) useless.

His self-explosion can do up to 1440 damage (I took that damage myself). That's without player-debuff which increases damage taken. This attack is also large enough to force players to have 2 Stamina at reserve during the entire battle; it is meant to immediately send players back to the lobby.

To survive that amount of damage without healing, players must dodge every single incoming attack, from the very start of the run. Considerable investment to Constitution is also a given, since no one likes getting instantly killed.

That's asking a lot of skill and focus, even for hardcore standards. No doubt the gameplay is very draining for casual and mid-core gamers, hence this thread has been written.

[rav]

just had a nice run where i had 61 dex, claws that scaled with dex and huge damage, i did around 150 dmg per hit, 300 below 50% thanks to crit but guess what, i havent found a single healing relic the whole run, taking every relic and using 2 favor on relics. i died 1 room before the last boss . if only i had a chance to heal...

[Radical Rat]

Originally posted by rav:

just had a nice run where i had 61 dex, claws that scaled with dex and huge damage, i did around 150 dmg per hit, 300 below 50% thanks to crit but guess what, i havent found a single healing relic the whole run, taking every relic and using 2 favor on relics. i died 1 room before the last boss . if only i had a chance to heal...

I just got to the third boss for the first time. I was lucky to get two relics +10%+15% health per door. With those two starting Jaguar perks +50%dmg on hit, -50% dmg during attack and 2h weapon it turned into no brain Berserker build

Some healing perks would be fine, but not too much to make it mandatory for every run. I would say something like 2% of health per door. Or maybe add something like high tier perks taking 2 or even 3 slots instead of one

[Pickle Bath]

Some of the frustration for me is that if I have a bad room, I'm talking a REALLY bad room, like 600 damage bad, then I know the run is over. There's no recovery mechanic. But that's probably intentional, with the solution being "get gud".

[Radical Rat]

Just happened

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2018669062