Is there or will there be a tactical pause feature?

[Davor]

I suck at these types of games. I just can't play games where there is no pause feature and I can't issue orders when paused. Many games I haven't bought because of this feature lacking.

I know the game is in early access so I have wish listed to keep an eye on the game. I might buy the game on my next paycheck. Thing is, I need there to be a tactical pause so I can see what is happening, issuing orders etc. If there is no tactical pause, I just don't have fun playing. An example from this would be Lord of the Rings, Battle for Middle Earth. For many it's a simple game to play, but for me, I can't keep up. No being way older, I am even more slower in mind and body.

I just want to have fun. :) If there is no tactical pause, will it be added in later?

Wishing you all the best.

Davor

[Thomas]

It has been requested a few times and it will be given priority based on that. I haven't thought about it in-depth yet because I am working on other features first. That being said there is a decent chance that I will add it for singleplayer since that won't influence the rest of the game too much. Still, it would feel like going against the traditional RTS mechanics like those used in Red Alert, Age of Empires and Homeworld which are all similar type games. This is not a turn-based strategy game, so I am hesistant in that regard. Still, it has been requested enough that I'm willing to see if I can add it to singleplayer to some degree. I dont think I will ever add it to multiplayer though. That kind of defeats the purpose of the 'real-time' part of RTS games.

[Caporal Omoc]

In single player mode, this should not disturb the sense of the game.
A pause mode would be good, it will avoid making backups, hoping that the machine does not crash during the pause mode.

[Davor]

Thank you very much for your reply and explanation. I understand a bit more of your vision.

This is in no way criticism on what I want to say. I am not good with words, so I hope it's not taken out of context. I just want to show you why people may not buy your game.

As I said, I just suck at these types of games. I just can't do it. So me and like many others, don't buy the games if we can't have fun. We can still suck at the games but still have fun. :)

I know for others, they don't like having the optional pause. Thing I don't understand, just like in The Elder Scrolls series when it comes to fast travel, how does having active pause/fast travel in a single player game affect you? It's a feature you don't have to use. So why take a feature out if someone doesn't have to use it, while others can?

This is what I could never understand. Don't like a feature, then don't use it. How is my fun in a game they can't join going to effect someone's else fun in a game I can't join them? I agree in multiplayer that will change the game, but in single player it doesn't effect anyone.

For people who need bragging rights, then have something like achievements of "completing game with no tactical pause ever used". Maybe another way of doing it for people who have "no self control" is to have an option in the single player game mode to have "no tactical pause" feature. Even better let people need to go into options to turn it on, or when starting a game for the first time to say "do you want tactical pause on or off" for the very first time and then the person needs to go into settings to turn on or off.

Then once turned on, the achievement for "never using tactical pause" can be earned.

I understand this is a one man or two man job (man as in mankind, not male). So there are other priorities needed first. I believe for a 1.0 release that tactical pause should be implemented. Even if it's the last thing to be implemented. At least it's there. It should Not to be added in later as a patch or free feature since the gaming industry has shown "adding in later after 1.0 may very likely never be added".

Yes it costs time. Yes it costs money. Something a 2 man crew do not have. Well the money they may not have, but time they do have. Thing is, will it add value to the game? Will the extra day or week or month be worth it? (I have no idea how programming works so not sure how much time it would be needed to make and then how much time to test out.)

Will having an OPTION to use or not use cost sales? No clue. Will having not in the game cost sales? Maybe. People love playing RTS games with no pause. Question is, this is not the Red Alert/Age of Empires days anymore. (I can be wrong, but I am sure Homeworld has tactical pause). Games evolve.

Look at The Elder Scrolls. It has evolved over the last 25 years. Would people play Skyrim if it was still like Arena/Daggerfall/Morrowind/Oblivion? Hard to tell. Look at Elder Scrolls Online. Back in the MMO craze that game did not take off. How come it is good now? It's more single player game orientated than classic MMO.

Times change. People change. As the Taco Bell girl said, "Why not have both?" So an option to use and not use tactical pause should be in the game. Let the people choose. Have both hard and soft tacos to people will buy your tacos.

I wish you luck. This game is wishlisted for the 1.0 release. I do want this game. Sadly I can't buy the game if I can't have fun. I fully understand why you make your decision one way or the other. I respect it. Just want to show you my perspective as well.

Davor

[Caporal Omoc]

I don't know the complexity of the feature, but just hit Escape to bring up the save menu and pause the game while the menu is open.
Pressed Escape again to exit the menu and resume the game.

[Davor]

Tactical pause is when you can pause the game and issue orders, look around, make decisions. Hitting Escape doesn't allow you to issue orders or do anything.

One of my favorite games that I didn't get to finish or even really play, Star Wars Rebellion from years ago. Even on slowest speed my poor brain couldn't keep up. Yes I know, it's a me thing. Now I am 30, 40 years older now, I really have a hard time keeping up. Again, it's a me thing.

If the game is not for me, it's not for me. So be it. I understand games can't be for everyone. Just letting the developer know why I will not buy his game. These games are already a niche game. So it will not sell very much. Take one feature away or not add one (Homeworld or was it Homeworld 2 and Cataclysm had real time with pause) the game will sell less.

Will people not buy a game because of tactical pause? My guess is yes. I can be very wrong and that would cause less sales then. It still boggles my mind why a person wouldn't buy a game just because there is a pause feature in a single player experience.

Would love to have a great discussion about this. No right or wrong answer here. It's all opinion and personal preference. Just would like to understand. :)

[Graybullet]

I can't agree with you more. There was an older thread discussing this issue.

Another advantage of tactical pause is that it allows fine-tuned simultaneous moves of multiple units, which can never be achieved without tactical pause.

[Kaldari]

Rebellion (or 'Supremacy' in the UK) practically required pausing. Late game would have so many notifications per day that it could take quite some time to work through them all.

Homeworld 1 had a pause, but you couldn't issue orders. Homeworld 2 and Cataclysm (re-released as 'Emergence') allowed issuing orders while paused.

Personally, I prefer having the option of using pause, because then I can make sure the unit is doing what I intend it to do, rather than relying on the AI's interpretation while my attention is elsewhere

[Caporal Omoc]

Originally posted by Davor:

Tactical pause is when you can pause the game and issue orders, look around, make decisions. Hitting Escape doesn't allow you to issue orders or do anything.

Thank you for this clarification, I am not used to this option because I think it is not the principle of a Real Time Strategy.
But I am not opposed to this option, in solo mode, it could be chosen at the start of the game in order to offer two possibilities to play.

[Davor]

Wanted to keep things in the same thread. Hope this isn't considered a necro. :)

Just wondering if the game has been updated yet with tactical pause. I am being patient, and haven't really found an answer. I am believing that no it has not yet been implemented, but I could be wrong so I am asking.

If not, I will still be waiting patiently.

[Thomas]

Originally posted by Davor:

Wanted to keep things in the same thread. Hope this isn't considered a necro. :)

Just wondering if the game has been updated yet with tactical pause. I am being patient, and haven't really found an answer. I am believing that no it has not yet been implemented, but I could be wrong so I am asking.

If not, I will still be waiting patiently.

Nope

[Davor]

Thanks for letting me know. Still waiting.

I can't remember. Is this a one man team?

[Thomas]

Originally posted by Davor:

Thanks for letting me know. Still waiting.

I can't remember. Is this a one man team?

Yes, its just me. And there is thousands of hours of work left if I want to implement everything. So I have to make choices. It might get added, it might not.

[Davor]

Wow, great job from what I have seen so far. Fully understand why it may not be added.

[Graybullet]

Originally posted by eLIET (Stellar Warfare dev):

Originally posted by Davor:

Thanks for letting me know. Still waiting.

I can't remember. Is this a one man team?

Yes, its just me. And there is thousands of hours of work left if I want to implement everything. So I have to make choices. It might get added, it might not.

From the perspective of sales, I think adding active pause might attract many more players and make those who know this game more likely to recommend it to others. You could take a look at this thread to see how many players have requested this feature for the recently released Age of Empires 4. As you can see in this thread, having this feature is a prerequisite for many players.

My personal opinion is that not having active pause will prevent many players from buying this game, because not having this feature completely negates the possibility of fine-tuned simultaneous moves and careful planning (which is why it is a prerequisite). It is a global-scale issue. Postponing the addition of a new weapon or ship type will be less likely to prevent players from buying the game, because it is only related to small-scope gameplay experience. It is a local-scale issue.



P.S. Based on what I have observed, adding this feature will make this game much more attractive and friendly to at least the following types of strategy game players:

(1) Those who enjoy careful fine-tuned moves and planning (rather than fast reactions);

(2) Fans of other space combat RTS games, such as Homeworld, Sins of a Solar Empire, AI War, Five Nations, etc (all of which have active pause);

(3) Fans of more hardcore RTS/RTT games, such as Total War Series, Steel Division, Wargame Red Dragon, Company of Heroes, Men of War, Combat Mission, Graviteam Tactics, etc (all of which have active pause);

(4) Fans of real-time grand strategy games who enjoy planning and coordination, such as Stellaris, Distant Worlds Universe, Hearts of Iron, etc. (all of which have active pause);

(5) Middle-aged or senior strategy game fans whose reactions are not as fast as young players (which I believe is a very promising group of players, because they grew up at the time when RTS games prospered and they tend to have less budget constraint).

(A possible counter-argument is that "this game is not for them". My response is "if I can make the game much more friendly and attractive to a much wider range of players by simply implementing such a small feature, then why not adding it?")

[Thomas]

Originally posted by Graybullet:

Originally posted by eLIET (Stellar Warfare dev):

Yes, its just me. And there is thousands of hours of work left if I want to implement everything. So I have to make choices. It might get added, it might not.

From the perspective of sales, I think adding active pause might attract many more players and make those who know this game more likely to recommend it to others. You could take a look at this thread to see how many players have requested this feature for the recently released Age of Empires 4. As you can see in this thread, having this feature is a prerequisite for many players.

My personal opinion is that not having active pause will prevent many players from buying this game, because not having this feature completely negates the possibility of fine-tuned simultaneous moves and careful planning (which is why it is a prerequisite). It is a global-scale issue. Postponing the addition of a new weapon or ship type will be less likely to prevent players from buying the game, because it is only related to small-scope gameplay experience. It is a local-scale issue.



P.S. Based on what I have observed, adding this feature will make this game much more attractive and friendly to at least the following types of strategy game players:

(1) Those who enjoy careful fine-tuned moves and planning (rather than fast reactions);

(2) Fans of other space combat RTS games, such as Homeworld, Sins of a Solar Empire, AI War, Five Nations, etc (all of which have active pause);

(3) Fans of more hardcore RTS/RTT games, such as Total War Series, Steel Division, Wargame Red Dragon, Company of Heroes, Men of War, Combat Mission, Graviteam Tactics, etc (all of which have active pause);

(4) Fans of real-time grand strategy games who enjoy planning and coordination, such as Stellaris, Distant Worlds Universe, Hearts of Iron, etc. (all of which have active pause);

(5) Middle-aged or senior strategy game fans whose reactions are not as fast as young players (which I believe is a very promising group of players, because they grew up at the time when RTS games prospered and they tend to have less budget constraint).

(A possible counter-argument is that "this game is not for them". My response is "if I can make the game much more friendly and attractive to a much wider range of players by simply implementing such a small feature, then why not adding it?")

I've read all you've had to say and you have made some good points in favor of adding it. But probably at least 5 days of work if im lucky. It affects almost all other systems. It could break the game implementing it leading to a month long bughunt.

It is a huge risk and liability to work on right now and there are a lot of other factors to consider as well. So other things have to be done first. I can not keep discussing over which features, which improvements and which other things are best for me to work on right now. Its nowhere near as simple as 'just adding a feature': it ties into almost every ingame system there is so fixing 1 thing here could break 12 others. I try to decide what to work on next based on what is most wise, and currently that is not tactical pause.

It is on the idea list, but no amount of discussing it is going to get it done any faster. I cant even promise it will be in the game for sure. All I can promise is that I am considering it and that if it doesn't hurt the original design of the game that I will implement it as soon as there is room for it. The campaign isn't even completely done yet and I am just 1 guy working on this, not a whole team. There is simply not the manpower or the money to add everything I or others would like.

For that reason I am also going to close this thread. I feel like I have heard a lot of points in favour of it by those who want it, so its on the list and it is being considered and kept in mind during the prioritization of tasks. Thats the best I can offer at this stage. If/when it gets added it will be added to the patch notes of that week and I'll probably put it on the steam store page as well.