I forgot how incredibly dumb this game is to get the true ending

[SomewhatGreenish]

Not really a thread, just needed to vent. So I played through the original game a couple years ago on the PS2, and I just replayed it now, memory relatively hazy. Spent about 100 hours trying to maximize my playthrough, only to get the normal ending because I said "yes" instead of "no" to packing up at the end of the game and saving over my profile. I know its a beginner mistake to save over a profile, especially at the end of the game, but I was under the impression that was it was over, and I had gotten the best ending, so I didnt care too much. Dungeons are a chore in this game and I have no real reason to replay it. Just kinda disappointed. Call me ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dumb in the comments, dont give a ♥♥♥♥, just wish the choices in this game were a bit more telling, rather than being an "end the game here" button behind a mask.

[Stormy Dawn]

Yeah. I will agree.

The True Ending is a bit weird.

I mean your realization that not everything adds up makes sense and all, but the way to get to that point in the game is really convoluted and easy to miss and/or mess up. There is a difference between having to figure things out for yourself as the player and having your path arbitrarily hidden by what comes off as a simple yes/no answer to a tangential question.

[Cheezystix]

The true golden ending isn't supposed to be something you get on the first try. It also isn't supposed to be something super obvious so you missing it is understandable.
However calling it "Dumb" might be a bit much especially considering it was your own mistake.
The whole point of that decision is to try and see if you can find the whole truth of the case instead of just half-assing it and accepting that some of your questions will never be answered.
It ruins the whole point of the games message if it just gives you the answer and says "Oh Hey! Your missing something to get the true ending! Go look around some more!".
Making it more hidden is supposed to reward you for figuring it out on your own.
Your not at fault for not remembering it correctly, but you shouldn't blame the game for it either.

[DaBa]

Originally posted by Cheezystix:

The true golden ending isn't supposed to be something you get on the first try. It also isn't supposed to be something super obvious so you missing it is understandable.
However calling it "Dumb" might be a bit much especially considering it was your own mistake.
The whole point of that decision is to try and see if you can find the whole truth of the case instead of just half-assing it and accepting that some of your questions will never be answered.
It ruins the whole point of the games message if it just gives you the answer and says "Oh Hey! Your missing something to get the true ending! Go look around some more!".
Making it more hidden is supposed to reward you for figuring it out on your own.
Your not at fault for not remembering it correctly, but you shouldn't blame the game for it either.

Your argument doesn't work and I feel like you're completely missing the point here.

Almost everything that leads to the true ending is an arbitrary requirement. For example: there is no way for the player to know that you need to max a certain social link to even attempt it, quite the contrary. The game makes that character like every other side character in the story, it does not hint at any special involvement. And even if you luck out by choosing the correct S links to piroritize and maxing it out before the deadline, you still have to choose the correct dialogue choices multiple times in a row. That sea of dialogue you have to navigate at a certain point is far from obvious as well, some of the choices are literally a coin toss because multiple of them make sense. And picking even a single one of them wrong results in immediate game over and you getting a pre-emptive ending. This is not something you simply figure out, it's completely arbitrary and unnecessarily restrictive. So yes, it is a dumb way of doing an ending to the game.

And the argument about the ending not being something that is supposed to be attainable on the first try makes no sense either. Are you really trying to say that expecting people to play a 100h long game again just because they missed their opportunity to get the correct ending? Or that having to load up your save multiple times to figure out which arbitrary dialogue choice you have to pick to proceed is somehow good design? Forcing players into a failure state just because they didn't guess properly is the definition of "dumb". P4G may be a fantastic game, but that is one of it's major flaws, the moon logic that gates the true ending.

[Kurosu]

Originally posted by DaBa:

Originally posted by Cheezystix:

The true golden ending isn't supposed to be something you get on the first try. It also isn't supposed to be something super obvious so you missing it is understandable.
However calling it "Dumb" might be a bit much especially considering it was your own mistake.
The whole point of that decision is to try and see if you can find the whole truth of the case instead of just half-assing it and accepting that some of your questions will never be answered.
It ruins the whole point of the games message if it just gives you the answer and says "Oh Hey! Your missing something to get the true ending! Go look around some more!".
Making it more hidden is supposed to reward you for figuring it out on your own.
Your not at fault for not remembering it correctly, but you shouldn't blame the game for it either.

Your argument doesn't work and I feel like you're completely missing the point here.

Almost everything that leads to the true ending is an arbitrary requirement. For example: there is no way for the player to know that you need to max a certain social link to even attempt it, quite the contrary. The game makes that character like every other side character in the story, it does not hint at any special involvement.

Sure, if you completely ignore the fact that the character is literally in the game poster + the most major addition to Golden then yeah there is no "hint".

[milkinaction]

Is acquiring the true ending different in Golden? I ain't that far in. Let me guess it's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Marie right?

Gotta rotate your saves bro especially in a 100 hour game that you can mess up. I've got a slot for the first of each month just in case. Don't rely on the 'jump back a week' option.

[Kurosu]

Originally posted by milkinaction:

Is acquiring the true ending different in Golden? I ain't that far in. Let me guess it's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Marie right?

Gotta rotate your saves bro especially in a 100 hour game that you can mess up. I've got a slot for the first of each month just in case. Don't rely on the 'jump back a week' option.

Yep thats the one.

[EnforcerKiller]

Originally posted by milkinaction:

Is acquiring the true ending different in Golden? I ain't that far in. Let me guess it's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Marie right?

Gotta rotate your saves bro especially in a 100 hour game that you can mess up. I've got a slot for the first of each month just in case. Don't rely on the 'jump back a week' option.

That's the golden ending technically speaking, the true ending remains the same where you don't need any social links maxed, just the right dialogue choices.

[Freudesleid]

No reason to call you dumb. I would have never known about the true or even the good ending If the internet would not exist. But P4G is not the only game with these kind of secrets. Have you ever played a FF game? You just cant simply get the other 60% of a FF game simply by yourself. (For example FF12 secret bosses, enemies, areas, equipment and so on)

[DaBa]

Originally posted by Kurosu:

Originally posted by DaBa:

Your argument doesn't work and I feel like you're completely missing the point here.

Almost everything that leads to the true ending is an arbitrary requirement. For example: there is no way for the player to know that you need to max a certain social link to even attempt it, quite the contrary. The game makes that character like every other side character in the story, it does not hint at any special involvement.

Sure, if you completely ignore the fact that the character is literally in the game poster + the most major addition to Golden then yeah there is no "hint".

Why do I even have to explain why this doesn't make any sense..? How is any new player supposed to know what is and is not an addition to Golden? Also, you can't be serious about the game poster part. I can't even see how is that relevant to how the game is designed...

Please, if you have nothing valuable to contribute don't spoil the discussion.

[Robepriority]

Nothing in the Velvet room happens without a purpose.

[Kurosu]

Originally posted by DaBa:

Originally posted by Kurosu:

Sure, if you completely ignore the fact that the character is literally in the game poster + the most major addition to Golden then yeah there is no "hint".

Why do I even have to explain why this doesn't make any sense..? How is any new player supposed to know what is and is not an addition to Golden? Also, you can't be serious about the game poster part. I can't even see how is that relevant to how the game is designed...

Please, if you have nothing valuable to contribute don't spoil the discussion.

Just because I tell things you dont want to hear doesnt make my words non-sensible nor that I should dissapear from the thread.Thats not how online forums work. Not everybody has to share your views.

In any case you cannot blame the game design because of your low perception skills.And FYI it literally takes a few minutes to find the differences between Golden and Vanilla. Also the very same formula was used in P5R almost 8 years later. If it aint broken ---> dont fix it.

And I used spoiler tags so I didnt spoil anything. Maybe pay attention next time instead of accusing me just for the sake of it.

I hope you manage to be less angry in online forums in the future.

[SomewhatGreenish]

Okay, just to respond to some. I know quite a bit about the SMT/Persona franchise. Not an expert, still trying to power through the original 2 Personas, but I know my way around the block. This is the only game in the franchise to lock a good ending behind a choice that is incredibly easy to miss. I didn't mean to start arguments because I entirely understand it's my fault for saving over my profile, but I found a similar point in the game with the debate on weather to throw Namatame into the TV or not. Even if you de-escalate the situation, you can still get saddled with the bad ending, its absolutely absurd. But if you choose the extremely specific choices the game wants you to make, then you have a CHANCE at getting the normal ending. I feel the "endings" shouldn't be a secret, especially if its considered "canonical." (I hold that term lightly considering canon is kinda wacky in the SMT universe) Thank you for all of your input, its nice to see people's viewpoint on this.

[SomewhatGreenish]

Originally posted by SomewhatGreenish:

Okay, just to respond to some. I know quite a bit about the SMT/Persona franchise. Not an expert, still trying to power through the original 2 Personas, but I know my way around the block. This is the only game in the franchise to lock a good ending behind a choice that is incredibly easy to miss. I didn't mean to start arguments because I entirely understand it's my fault for saving over my profile, but I found a similar point in the game with the debate on weather to throw Namatame into the TV or not. Even if you de-escalate the situation, you can still get saddled with the bad ending, its absolutely absurd. But if you choose the extremely specific choices the game wants you to make, then you have a CHANCE at getting the normal ending. I feel the "endings" shouldn't be a secret, especially if its considered "canonical." (I hold that term lightly considering canon is kinda wacky in the SMT universe) Thank you for all of your input, its nice to see people's viewpoint on this.

It also doesnt help that I did all of the content to get there, including that wack af dungeon near the end for Marie

[Nito]

Got fooled between the true ending and the golden ending as well on the first run haha

It is a pretty annoying design(the game is full of them) but it is normal for a 10 year old game
I agree a bit with Op before the Namatame the game should really give a warning that the ending can be near....

Same on Golden end wish it would have red letters "you are about to leave the game will end are you sure?"

[Cheezystix]

Originally posted by SomewhatGreenish:

Okay, just to respond to some. I know quite a bit about the SMT/Persona franchise. Not an expert, still trying to power through the original 2 Personas, but I know my way around the block. This is the only game in the franchise to lock a good ending behind a choice that is incredibly easy to miss. I didn't mean to start arguments because I entirely understand it's my fault for saving over my profile, but I found a similar point in the game with the debate on weather to throw Namatame into the TV or not. Even if you de-escalate the situation, you can still get saddled with the bad ending, its absolutely absurd. But if you choose the extremely specific choices the game wants you to make, then you have a CHANCE at getting the normal ending. I feel the "endings" shouldn't be a secret, especially if its considered "canonical." (I hold that term lightly considering canon is kinda wacky in the SMT universe) Thank you for all of your input, its nice to see people's viewpoint on this.

Okay, that makes a lot more sense then your OP. In this we can agree upon cause that choice with Nametame is bullcrap.
I was under the impression you were talking about Izanami cause I feel that twist is completely possible to figure out on your own.
However I still do think that making these choices obvious would take away from everything the game stands for. If the truth was easy to obtain then literally nothing in the story would have happened.