<3

[Dopey Shepard]

Plz delete this thread, thank you

[XypieTheZip]

I don’t have a particularly powerful pc at all. And I haven’t experienced any stutters or FPS drops or sound glitches, or cutscene slowdowns or anything O.o my friend whom I also convinced to buy it on pc has a REALLY bad laptop. Can’t even run CS:GO at 40 FPS most of the time and can run this game at 60fps 720p 🥺. So idk why people are having such issues

[Dan*****]

I have no earthly clue what Denuvo is. All I can say is that I have a crappy ass laptop from 2017 and aside from the laggy cutscenes the game runs fantastic for me.

[CheeseBoar]

Dopey Shepard님이 먼저 게시:

Lurkermin님이 먼저 게시:

I'll be dropping my 2 cents in here.
My job requires me to be without internet or much of anything else to do for months at a time.
Games with Denuvo cannot be played offline indefinitely. In short.
I'd be left high and dry with no games after a while if I bought Denuvo using games.

It's a reasonable argument. Don't forget there are a lot of other games that are online-only, they may not have denuvo but they are running on a server, these games can be both on PC or on consoles

Also, game devs have to assume that in our modern day and age everyone has constant access to internet. This isn't early 2000s

The problem doesn't necessarily have to be with the connection of the end user, though. If a Denuvo server is having issues, then you could have the best internet connection in the world, and it wouldn't matter. There have already been two topics on this message board (EDIT: 3 topics), for this game, of people getting locked out and being shown the infamous try-again-in-24-hours Denuvo error message.

[FirestormMk3]

Dopey Shepard님이 먼저 게시:

Lurkermin님이 먼저 게시:

I'll be dropping my 2 cents in here.
My job requires me to be without internet or much of anything else to do for months at a time.
Games with Denuvo cannot be played offline indefinitely. In short.
I'd be left high and dry with no games after a while if I bought Denuvo using games.

It's a reasonable argument. Don't forget there are a lot of other games that are online-only, they may not have denuvo but they are running on a server, these games can be both on PC or on consoles

Also, game devs have to assume that in our modern day and age everyone has constant access to internet. This isn't early 2000s

It's really not a reasonable argument though. It's totally reasonable to expect that you're not gonna be able to play Apex Legends or World of Warships or any one of those other online-only games without robust and constant internet connections. It's quite another thing to say "well then an always online requirements is a reasonable burden for a single player game." This game does not run server side. Even games like Total War may have online play as an option, but I'd wager there are a fair few Total War players who never play online at all. I for one rarely do and only with actual friends as opposed to randos. As much as EA and Activision-Blizzard tried to sell people on the idea a few years ago, single player is not dead, even if they'd like it to be because infinite recurrent spending microtransaction online only games are way more profitable. The fact that this is a purely offline, single player experience without even the option to jump online for some PvP matchmaking only makes is all the more UNREASONABLE that it should mandate the same infrastructure as a modern online-only game to play.

Finally, you really do need to check your privilege if you're saying it's reasonable for any medium to require constant hi-speed internet to function. The last few brick and mortar video rental places in the US still exist in rual areas where sometimes if there is internet at all it's cell service with data caps or still dial-up or DSL. Stadia is not the first product out of Silicon Valley to fall on its face because it operates on the "reasonable assumption" that everyone in the world should have access to the same technological infrastructure as exists there. It's pretty absurd to say those people should just "f" themselves and not have entertainment that doesn't REQUIRE internet just so some shareholders can hope they stuck it in someone's eye. You shouldn't have to connect a Blu-ray movie to the internet to authenticate it before it can play just because we live in the age of Netflix and "there are so many shows these days you can't watch without internet streaming."

[ValentB]

HackSawFred3232님이 먼저 게시:

NekOz님이 먼저 게시:

You want a reallly good point? If the Denuvo verification servers were to go down at some point, good luck being able to play the game at all as it requires connectivity to Denuvo's Servers, unless Denuvo is removed with a crack or a patch from the developers.

Alright, see you in 100 years then.

SecuROM is down after 10 years and causing troubles for Windows 10. Some games like GTA 4 patched it out, some didn't.
See you in 2030.

[ValentB]

That's just you
Bud I still replay Max Payne, Mafia 1 and GTA 3 sometimes and not gonna drop em in 2030 either.
Let alone 2010 or 2020 games.

P.S. You claim that 10yo games are old, yet you here on a forum of 12yo game.

[Lu2]

Dopey Shepard님이 먼저 게시:

ValentB님이 먼저 게시:

SecuROM is down after 10 years and causing troubles for Windows 10. Some games like GTA 4 patched it out, some didn't.
See you in 2030.

bud by 2030 you won't ever really care for games that old as we have them right now. It will be a whole new generation of gaming

Besides, how many years do you need to properly fully enjoy a game? In a couple of years time you can safely finish all of your games like 2-3 times over. I mean, how many people here on steam own hundreds of games with like 3-4 hours of avg playtime between them, 20-50% of their library never even gets touched. I would very much rather ACTUALLY play and complete smth only to have it "cancelled" 10 years from now on than buy smth just because it was on sale and never play it

But maybe that's just me

Either way, see you in 10 years, you can even necro this very thread and prove us wrong

iam still playing quake ,blood , descent . great games never age

[treos100]

Dopey Shepard님이 먼저 게시:

ValentB님이 먼저 게시:

That's just you
Bud I still replay Max Payne, Mafia 1 and GTA 3 sometimes and not gonna drop em in 2030 either.
Let alone 2010 or 2020 games.

P.S. You claim that 10yo games are old, yet you here on a forum of 12yo game.

i literally said that in 2030 you prolly wouldn't be playing THESE games, so P4 would be 22 years old, that's what I meant

people, to this day, still play atari games. stop acting as if you're speaking for everyone when you very clearly are speaking only for yourself.

[Dopey Shepard]

treos100님이 먼저 게시:

Dopey Shepard님이 먼저 게시:

i literally said that in 2030 you prolly wouldn't be playing THESE games, so P4 would be 22 years old, that's what I meant

people, to this day, still play atari games. stop acting as if you're speaking for everyone when you very clearly are speaking only for yourself.

Do you even realize that you can't legally buy PS2 games anymore? Let alone PS1, let alone Sega, let alone Atari. People who play these classics are one of the very very few because they still got working CDs/Cartridges after all these years. Gaming has evolved, we are not playing on 700 mb CD disks saving our data on memory cards like it was on PS1. Let them play their atari. You can't even buy the console or the games to it legally anywhere unless you are buying overexpensive used classics from the middle-man

Persona 4 Golden was only re-relased on PC, in digital form, NOT physical. There are NO physical editions of games for PC, not anymore, that thing died before 2010 or smth. You can't sell your P4G to anybody, unless you were to sell your steam account which is ILLEGAL

So how is it even a comparison, bud? You are comparing physical classics to digital modern-era games. At least make a comparison for a PS5 Persona 5 physical disk

[FirestormMk3]

Yeah, I switched to PC as a more primary platform because I care about archival, and increasingly that's more attainable on PC that elsewhere, especially with places like GOG. I bought this game twice already (if you're willing to count the original P4) with preorders and the loss of backwards compatability and my PS3 having overheating issues has left me with no good way to revisit titles like P3:FES and has seen me rebuy old Final Fantasy games and the like. Maybe you only play the latest releases, but there's a reason ports of FFIII were still being re released this decade, and that's WAY older than this game will be. So yeah, I do care about playing this game in the future, and that's why I want a PC copy that won't render itself unplayable when the Denuvo servers inevitably go down.

Besides, I can't fathom the people who argue in favor of companies on this and point to EULAs as proof you don't actually buy a copy anyway as though it's somehow *right* that you are buying an indefinite long-term rental. It's like they're right with EA in longing for the day that the only way to play any game is through a streaming service with a subscription fee.

[treos100]

Dopey Shepard님이 먼저 게시:

treos100님이 먼저 게시:

people, to this day, still play atari games. stop acting as if you're speaking for everyone when you very clearly are speaking only for yourself.

Do you even realize that you can't legally buy PS2 games anymore? Let alone PS1, let alone Sega, let alone Atari. People who play these classics are one of the very very few because they still got working CDs/Cartridges after all these years. Gaming has evolved, we are not playing on 700 mb CD disks saving our data on memory cards like it was on PS1. Let them play their atari. You can't even buy the console or the games to it legally anywhere unless you are buying overexpensive used classics from the middle-man

Persona 4 Golden was only re-relased on PC, in digital form, NOT physical. There are NO physical editions of games for PC, not anymore, that thing died before 2010 or smth. You can't sell your P4G to anybody, unless you were to sell your steam account which is ILLEGAL

So how is it even a comparison, bud? You are comparing physical classics to digital modern-era games. At least make a comparison for a PS5 Persona 5 physical disk

"Do you even realize that you can't legally buy PS2 games anymore?"

did you know that you can legally purchase and emulate copies of nes, snes, n64, and other ROMs of old video games via nintendo's virtual console system?

you can legally purchase and emulate some (not all) ps2 games for ps4 via psn.

xbox live has arcade game ROMs for sale.

fact: download of ROMs of old video games and emulation of old video games IS NOT ILLEGAL! least it isn't anymore...as long as you pay a company for permission to do so.

they don't openly say it but in practice, nintendo themselves, openly endorse the download and emulation of ROM files of old video games with their virtual console emulation system.

when you pay them for permission to download and play an nes game you are literally downloading and emulating an nes ROM file. the exact same ROM you would be able to get from countless different websites.

literally the ONLY thing illegal about this is doing it for free. without first paying a company for permission to do it.

so, stfu about the legality. if you've ever paid and downloaded an old video game from past generations via any of these services then you have, in fact, done the exact same thing "digital pirates" do. the one and only difference is that pirates do the exact same thing for free. that's it! that's all there is to it!

"People who play these classics are one of the very very few because they still got working CDs/Cartridges after all these years."

no...tens, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people download and emulate these old games all the time. it is not a tiny number of people.

"Gaming has evolved, we are not playing on 700 mb CD disks saving our data on memory cards like it was on PS1."

er...i wouldn't want to die on that hill for 1 trillion dollars cause... *points at cyberpunk 2077* that's a helluva reach.

"You can't even buy the console or the games to it legally anywhere unless you are buying overexpensive used classics from the middle-man"

this is why emulations exists and is increasingly a necessity.

"Persona 4 Golden was only re-relased on PC, in digital form, NOT physical."

and that changes nothing at all. doesn't even affect the games availability in the slightest.

this game ceased to be a platform exclusive years before this pc release. it's one of the benefits of emulation. platform exclusivity ceases to be a thing.

want me to educate you further on this topic you don't seem to know much about? i'll do it and gladly.

but it's more likely you're going to try and get me banned with this post which i'll then contest, show them your post and that you were also discussing what constitutes "discussion of piracy" and you'll go down with me.

and on that note. @moderators: if you want to ban people for talking about ROMs and emulation of old video games. go perma ban every last person on the SEGA Mega Drive and Genesis Classics forum here on steam AND get in touch with sega for selling and distributing illegal goods as well as for promoting piracy with that emulator and all the ROM files they're selling here.

because, like Dopey Shepard here believes (fitting name btw), emulation and the downloading of ROMs is illegal piracy. RIIIght?

sorry, dope, but you're completely incorrect here on just about every point including, and especially, legality.

[treos100]

FirestormMk3님이 먼저 게시:

Besides, I can't fathom the people who argue in favor of companies on this and point to EULAs as proof you don't actually buy a copy anyway as though it's somehow *right* that you are buying an indefinite long-term rental. It's like they're right with EA in longing for the day that the only way to play any game is through a streaming service with a subscription fee.

agreed...that whole "you're not buying anything" thing is pure BS and is 100% untrue. and i've a whole bunch of cartridges and discs here in my room to back that up. those were purchases i made over the years, NOT rentals.

[Dopey Shepard]

treos100님이 먼저 게시:

FirestormMk3님이 먼저 게시:

Besides, I can't fathom the people who argue in favor of companies on this and point to EULAs as proof you don't actually buy a copy anyway as though it's somehow *right* that you are buying an indefinite long-term rental. It's like they're right with EA in longing for the day that the only way to play any game is through a streaming service with a subscription fee.

agreed...that whole "you're not buying anything" thing is pure BS and is 100% untrue. and i've a whole bunch of cartridges and discs here in my room to back that up. those were purchases i made over the years, NOT rentals.

Well in a weird way, they are sort of rentals. You can only play them until they break, or get damaged permanently, or you lose them, or you give them to somebody and they don't give back. I've personally lost some PC games from the early 2000s that I legitimately had on CDs because I was moving around a lot, between countries and different apartments, and dunno, somewhere some long time ago lost all those CDs. So doesn't really matter that I bought them or not, I have to re-buy them, but technically speaking, I can't because they are not officially sold anywhere and the online servers for some of those games have been long abandoned (C&C Renegade, Star Wars Jedi Knight 2)

Steam games are sort of permanent because getting a perma ban is actually rather hard. I've seen a whole bunch of people with soft N words in their names with active accounts. Idk what's actually harder - losing steam account or losing your physical game collection, so I'm not gonna argue about that any further. PC is fully digital right now and will be for the foreseeable future because there is just no way we are going back to inserting games into disktrays. Modern PC cases for the most part don't even support installation of a disk tray and instead come with triple-front-fan-RGB system or smth like that

p.s. to that 2000 word essay post trying to find loopholes to justify emulation - stop talking about it. If you play a game on an emulator that you haven't purchased - it's piracy, plain and simple. There's no way around it. It's literally stated on official websites of emulators - they won't share roms, and they won't even share console's bios, which means that legitimately you HAVE TO connect your console to the emulator, and you HAVE to insert a physical PS1/PS2 game into your PC's disk tray to run it ( I have no clue how you are gonna insert a Sega/Atari cartridge lol) and only that way it might just be considered legal. If you bought the game some time ago and then lost it, and now you can't officially buy it cuz it's not sold anywhere - well that's just your problem and doesn't exactly justify you getting roms from shady websites. I won't repeat myself any further, nor will I read any other bs that you post

[treos100]

Dopey Shepard님이 먼저 게시:

does not know what he's talking about in the slightest!

PROVE IT! prove that it is illegal to download and emulate old video games! DO IT![/i]

you are talking out of your ass about something that is 100% LEGAL to do.

it is NOT illegal to emulate video games from old platforms.

i have PURCHASED and can emulate ps2 games ON MY PS4 LEGALLY!

if i had an xbox console i could purchase and emulate arcade games LEGALLY!

back when i had a wii i had multiple games from multiple nintendo consoles including turbografx that i had purchased for nintendo's virtual console service and emulated them LEGALLY!

it is NOT illegal to download and emulate ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ video games.

video game companies have been doing this for over 20 years.

if you STILL want to insist that emulation of old video games is illegal then provide PROOF. PROVE THAT IT IS ILLEGAL!

prove that sega's own "SEGA Mega Drive and Genesis Classics" EMULATION software being sold here on steam is illegal because it LITERALLY allows people to do what YOU are saying is illegal: download and emulate ROM files of old video games!

there is no 2 sides to this. either it is LEGAL or ILLEGAL. it IS NOT both!

either the download and emulation of ROMs and ISOs of old video games IS illegal or it is NOT illegal. PICK ONE! because i'm not letting you act like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ nintendo where they use hypocrisy, semantics, and gods damned double speak to criminalize the very thing THEY THEMSELVES profit from.

[Nik]

Because Denuvo bricks games on Linux you dumb dumb