2-handed sword still seems too weak

[Zaidah]

Since the last update, most weapons got rebalanced (nerf and up alike), but the 2-handed sword still seems weaker than any alternative.

The 1-handed sword will still be best both for mobility and single-target damage. The 2-handed sword would only be better for the area of effect, and it's not even good at it (most of the time it won't even kill basic enemies, only leaving them low hp).

Inertia is the only other (damage/utility) stat you can get a use from, and the spell can only be used 2 times a turn. If it stays that way, the base damage (for the 1st and 4th spell) should be increased (especially the 1st one : 2 AP to hit 2 targets and you might not even one-shot them - at least with the apocalypse hp boost... Spear also has a 2 target spell but it benefits from inertia).

I'm not even mentioning that, since it's a 2-handed weapon, you can't get any shield or secondary weapon.

What's you take on that weapon ?

[Aestrea]

I still haven't unlocked the variants for it which says a lot about it.

Skill 1: Normal Slash (F) - 2AP for 2 targets, damage scaling is quite bad

Skill 2: That random momentum skill that you probably don't use (D) - Gives the sword some utility but if you have any kind of momentum build, you are not using the 2H-sword.

Skill 3: Charge (S) - Really good utility and Mana/AP consumption to hit 3 targets, the only skill that is awesome for this weapon that is even better on a scroll.

Skill 4: Sword Sweep (C) - It's a decent skill but limited by it's number of uses. There isn't much to say about it.

[Aldain]

It's a weapon that requires a lot (probably too much imo) of investment to make strong, you practically need a Specialist+Boom build in my experience, but if you get it running you can wipe big numbers out with it.

The momentum skill is also surprisingly effective at deleting single targets which further aids in the use of the Boom perk, but realistically speaking you need even more perks like Relentless and Inertia to get even more out of it.

It's kind of like the Rifle imo, solid but requires just...way too specific a build to get use out of, especially compared to say the 2H Hammers, which are just plain insane in both AP cost effectiveness AND output.

[Zaidah]

@Aestra you summarized very well the skill's strenght and weaknesses of it haha.

@Aldain maybe with a very specific build, you could do something out of it. You're talking about rifle though : it's actually strong now, the 1st skill is undodgeable, and the 2nd skill benefits from opportunist. But for the 2 handed sword, beside inertia, there really isn't anything, and the base skill (mostly the 1st one) are too weak.

[Aldain]

Originally posted by Zaidah:

@Aldain maybe with a very specific build, you could do something out of it. You're talking about rifle though : it's actually strong now, the 1st skill is undodgeable, and the 2nd skill benefits from opportunist. But for the 2 handed sword, beside inertia, there really isn't anything, and the base skill (mostly the 1st one) are too weak.

To be fair I'm on the Switch version where the Rifle is still terrible, but functionally the 2H Sword is in the same spot the Rifle was in before.

Overall though the first ability is a large part of the problem I do agree, doesn't do enough to justify the 2AP cost (similar to the old Rifle), and the baseline uses per turn on the weapon are just hilariously low when compared to the 2H hammer which can just go absolutely nuts even without Specialist.

[Crepuscule]

I mean 2-h sword was nerfed in 1.0 and if I'm not mistaken it's the last balance patch.
The weapon is in a weird state since it's mana skills are very good (charge was just dumb prenerf) and the basic skill is very bad.
Also I may be wrong but the momentum skill may be the hardest hitting momentum skill in the game (low +momentum stat but high base damage)

[TripSin]

I haven't been using 2-handed weapons much, but I agree, in my experience the 2H sword has felt like a trash weapon, the worst in the game. It's disappointing the devs left it in such a state.

The basic 1 attack is so stupid because you can easily not have enough damage from it to even kill trash enemies with it. If you end up trying to use it again to finish them off you just used 4 ap to kill 2 trash mobs - absolutely atrocious. It should probably have more charges per turn of the momentum strike like you said. The AE skill should also get another use per turn so that at least maybe then it could be useful on a vampire build or whatever.

[Azktor]

I think an increase in the damage on the first ability (20%) would probably help a lot to reach those pesk breakpoint and +1 use on the second ability so you can use more often in momentum builds.

[Aldain]

Originally posted by Azktor:

I think an increase in the damage on the first ability (20%) would probably help a lot to reach those pesk breakpoint and +1 use on the second ability so you can use more often in momentum builds.

The problem is that even if you increased the output on the basic Slash it's still like a worse version of the Spear's Basic attack, while also without any of the benefits Spears get in the rest of their kit.

Hell all things considered I'd put it behind even most 1H melee weapons, it doesn't really have a niche that it fills that isn't done better by other melee weapons.

[Grobobobo]

The basic attack should be 1AP to give it something of a unique niche. Would become REALLY good if you feed it a lot of damage.

As it is now, it's so far below every other weapon in the game it's weird, I can't think of any other weapon I want to actively avoid.

[Rodrigo]

2 handed axe and rifle still sucks ballz... single hammer and lance are still the win.

[Grobobobo]

2handed axe and rifle are on their weaker side, but the at least still have things about them that stand out and are unique. 2handed sword is just a worse spear.

[Aldain]

Originally posted by Grobobobo:

2handed axe and rifle are on their weaker side, but the at least still have things about them that stand out and are unique. 2handed sword is just a worse spear.

That's what I'm saying, even the 2H Axe has some damage up utility and the spin, the 2H Sword just...doesn't do anything.

[Rodrigo]

Originally posted by Grobobobo:

2handed axe and rifle are on their weaker side, but the at least still have things about them that stand out and are unique. 2handed sword is just a worse spear.

There's quite a bit of balancing needed in half the weapons overall, some are broken op like the mini crossbow, or the 1h stun mace, and some are plain bad like 2h sword and axe.

And then there's the rifle, I just can't stress enough how ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ useless this piece of garbage trash ass weapon is :) whenever I get a rifleman starting a run I just quit.

Now furthermore, thing is just that any weapon with bounce can be improved to broken levels, the mace not only deals a heap of damage it bounces to a gazillion monsters stunning the fk out of everyone, other weapons should have some sort of upgrade path like this as well.

[Aestrea]

Originally posted by Rodrigo:

Originally posted by Grobobobo:

2handed axe and rifle are on their weaker side, but the at least still have things about them that stand out and are unique. 2handed sword is just a worse spear.

There's quite a bit of balancing needed in half the weapons overall, some are broken op like the mini crossbow, or the 1h stun mace, and some are plain bad like 2h sword and axe.

And then there's the rifle, I just can't stress enough how ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ useless this piece of garbage trash ass weapon is :) whenever I get a rifleman starting a run I just quit.

Now furthermore, thing is just that any weapon with bounce can be improved to broken levels, the mace not only deals a heap of damage it bounces to a gazillion monsters stunning the fk out of everyone, other weapons should have some sort of upgrade path like this as well.

The 2H Axe is one of the strongest weapons in the game because of that buff skill. If you specialize or go dual 2h-axe, you can potentially get +200% damage buff indefinitely with blessing and 33% less without and still mow through anything in the game. The reduced resistance can also be negated now or just buff another person for added value. You won't be able to normally get 20 levels of rare damage up through your runs.

[Azktor]

Rifles is a fine secondary weapom for oportunist builds (Sledges and 1hd axe are better, but rifle is workable) If i don't have a lot of mobility (1hd axe) or skill range (sledge) I think rifle can perform better than those two options.

2h Axe is a good secondary weapom for Blood mages + any kind of teleport. Also, don't sleep on the buff, it can be good as well.

2h Crossbow is kinda bad, too hard to use compared to longbow/shortbow

2h Sword is really bad besides giving some mobility, but 1h sword just what 2h sword does 10x better.