Da hell is "perk damage"?

[Homonim]

Which skill of my weapons get the +dmg buff from skill with "perk dmg"? "Every attack triggerning specific perk", like what the hell thats means?

[Kaysoky]

I believe this is a new source of (multiplicative) damage that was introduced with the Dwarves update. So for the new weapons, if they get +50% perk damage, that stacks multiplicatively on your existing +Damage%, making the perk relevant regardless of how high your current damage multiplier is.

I think it used to be called "Total Damage", and could be found on perks like Big Game Hunter.

[Pinstar]

Originally posted by Kaysoky:

I believe this is a new source of (multiplicative) damage that was introduced with the Dwarves update. So for the new weapons, if they get +50% perk damage, that stacks multiplicatively on your existing +Damage%, making the perk relevant regardless of how high your current damage multiplier is.

I think it used to be called "Total Damage", and could be found on perks like Big Game Hunter.

So if I had 10% Damage and 10% perk damage and made an attack that did 100 base damage it would actually do 100 * 1.1 * 1.1 = 121 damage?

[Bumc]

Perk damage is what was earlier multiplicative damage everyone keep confusing with %dmg stat (versatility, giant slayer, this kind of stuff).

DLC update renamed it and added some sources that work only on certain perks (mainly shield).

And yes the math above checks out.

[BreezeLetterGaming]

I'm a little confused on what exactly it actually works on. I presume that it's a final multiplier added on just before final damage numbers. But what perks does it work on? Is there some indicator that shows what it works on or am I just going to have to figure it out via trial and error?

[sandman25dcsss]

Originally posted by BreezeLetterGaming:

I'm a little confused on what exactly it actually works on. I presume that it's a final multiplier added on just before final damage numbers. But what perks does it work on? Is there some indicator that shows what it works on or am I just going to have to figure it out via trial and error?

The game multiplies different modifiers like bonus for isolated, bonus for opportunism, bonus for damage attribute etc. Perk damage is one of such modifiers. If a perk increases perk damage by 50% and you do not have other sources of perk damage, the modifier becomes 1.5 meaning your total damage is increased by 50%.

[BreezeLetterGaming]

Originally posted by sandman25dcsss:

Originally posted by BreezeLetterGaming:

I'm a little confused on what exactly it actually works on. I presume that it's a final multiplier added on just before final damage numbers. But what perks does it work on? Is there some indicator that shows what it works on or am I just going to have to figure it out via trial and error?

The game multiplies different modifiers like bonus for isolated, bonus for opportunism, bonus for damage attribute etc. Perk damage is one of such modifiers. If a perk increases perk damage by 50% and you do not have other sources of perk damage, the modifier becomes 1.5 meaning your total damage is increased by 50%.

I'm really sorry, you've laid it out really simply, but I still don't get it. What damage does it apply to? Only perks? Like spiky counter. Or are there certain attacks that proc it? Or is it just a modifier that increases all damage? Like the damage bonus Stat, but acting as an extra, separate multiplier?

[sandman25dcsss]

Originally posted by BreezeLetterGaming:

Originally posted by sandman25dcsss:

The game multiplies different modifiers like bonus for isolated, bonus for opportunism, bonus for damage attribute etc. Perk damage is one of such modifiers. If a perk increases perk damage by 50% and you do not have other sources of perk damage, the modifier becomes 1.5 meaning your total damage is increased by 50%.

I'm really sorry, you've laid it out really simply, but I still don't get it. What damage does it apply to? Only perks? Like spiky counter. Or are there certain attacks that proc it? Or is it just a modifier that increases all damage? Like the damage bonus Stat, but acting as an extra, separate multiplier?

Yes, separate multiplier. Ignore the name, treat as X. If you see a perk adds 50% as X, this is all it does. X is yet another multiplier like multiplier for isolated target or opportunism. You don't ask which perks add isolated, right?
Total damage is weaponDamage * A1 * A2 *A3... * An. Perk damage is one of those multipliers, other multipliers are related to opportunism, critical, isolation etc.

[BreezeLetterGaming]

So it procs on all (normal) damage types, regardless of attack?(melee, ranged, magic)

I did actually question for quite a while how, and on what, opportunism worked until I eventually worked it out, but it's a little harder when I have to commit one of the last perk points a hero gets this run before the boss wave to testing how a perk works.

Opportunism also has a really comprehensive and easily understood tool tip. Unlike Perk Damage, which is barely descriptive at all.

[sandman25dcsss]

Originally posted by BreezeLetterGaming:

So it procs on all (normal) damage types, regardless of attack?(melee, ranged, magic)

I did actually question for quite a while how, and on what, opportunism worked until I eventually worked it out, but it's a little harder when I have to commit one of the last perk points a hero gets this run before the boss wave to testing how a perk works.

Opportunism also has a really comprehensive and easily understood tool tip. Unlike Perk Damage, which is barely descriptive at all.

Yes, it works according to description. For instance, Don't panic increases your perk damage by 40% when target is in haven. It does not mention damage type (melee/ranged/magic) so it affects them all. You can actually see it in preview when targeting an enemy.

[BreezeLetterGaming]

Originally posted by sandman25dcsss:

Originally posted by BreezeLetterGaming:

So it procs on all (normal) damage types, regardless of attack?(melee, ranged, magic)

I did actually question for quite a while how, and on what, opportunism worked until I eventually worked it out, but it's a little harder when I have to commit one of the last perk points a hero gets this run before the boss wave to testing how a perk works.

Opportunism also has a really comprehensive and easily understood tool tip. Unlike Perk Damage, which is barely descriptive at all.

Yes, it works according to description. For instance, Don't panic increases your perk damage by 40% when target is in haven. It does not mention damage type (melee/ranged/magic) so it affects them all. You can actually see it in preview when targeting an enemy.

I think I touched on it before, but I didn't want to "trial and error" it, and it's a big ask to spend the likely last perk point you're going to get on a perk you don't know the mechanics of.

In any case, thank you a million times, you have genuinely been a great help. I'm pretty sure I now understand when perk damage procs.
I only have one last question. Bumc earlier in this thread mentioned that it used to be called multiplicative damage, and that it was added on after the rest of the calculation, as a mutliplicative(duh) modifier. Is that still the case? is +50% an increase of 50% of the final damage, or the base damage?

In short, is it multiplicative, or additive?

[sandman25dcsss]

All damage is multiplicative with other modifiers, but additive inside its own category.
If you trigger Don't panick with its +40% perk damage modifier, your total damage will be increased by 40%. But if you also trigger Flexibility on top of that, your perk damage modifier will be +65% (+25% from flexibility and +40% from dont panic), your total damage will be increased by 65% instead.

[BreezeLetterGaming]

Originally posted by sandman25dcsss:

All damage is multiplicative with other modifiers, but additive inside its own category.
If you trigger Don't panick with its +40% perk damage modifier, your total damage will be increased by 40%. But if you also trigger Flexibility on top of that, your perk damage modifier will be +65% (+25% from flexibility and +40% from dont panic), your total damage will be increased by 65% instead.

Okay that makes sense. Thank you very much.

[Ismoísta]

Sorry to necro this, but I still don' quite get it.
If (as I understand it) perk damage is just simple, straightforward extra damage, why give it a different name? Why not just say "increase your damage by 25%"? Unless am missing something.
Also, why then does it say "triggering a specific perk"?

[Kaysoky]

It's the difference between additive and multiplicative. If it said it increases damage by 25%, it would be additive and would diminish in value as your hero levels up. Instead, being a separate category means it increases your power as your hero levels up.

For example, suppose you have +50% damage and +25% perk damage. If they were additive, you'd deal 1.75x damage. If they are multiplicative, they deal 1.875x damage.

As for the wording "triggering a specific perk", I agree it sounds a bit odd.

[Bumc]

"Triggering a specific perk" part applies only to war shield's passive and typed perks like versatility (and to gauntlet, but they took that part away).