Perk rankings anyone?

[princeazazel]

So I'm gonna personally rank each tier for my style based on the rank. Let me know which ones you run and why. This is gonna get long and I may slightly change a name or two.
Fatality: Rank D, only useful at the very start of the game and in the most rare of points where poison damage would most likely serve better.
Avid learner: Rank A, Unlike the last this is mainly useful only after either a few runs or nights because of how much EXP goes around when you get more crew.
Coagulation: Rank C, It's not bad but it's not great. The trick is to not leave your heroes in damage range in the first place, meaning you won't need high daily healing or as much armor even.
Crit master: Rank F, I took this only once on my starting run and never touched it again. While critting is nice on paper I find there is another skill that does not mix well at all with crit damage so I actually try and keep my critting low.
Kung fu fighting: Rank D, I'm willing to give this a D only because it can be a hair helpful if you run out of weapon attacks or mana to use but are just a hair away from killing a foe.
Potent toxins: Rank B+, I may use this a ton and I highly recommend for poison builds.... but I feel the buff doesn't really do much. Like I see maybe 3 points more of poison damage, which will add up when you build into it buttt It's not really gonna be the biggest factor, would be better as a flat rate increase
Swift as the wind: Rank C, it's alright for some melee classes and staff users but anything left to chance like that when you may need to get out of there fast doesn't seem the best, but also doesn't hurt.
Steady aim: Rank S, You may think that it should be A because melee classes can't use it, but keep in mind it gives both an acc boost which super matters late game, and also ups skill range just for taking a moment to think about your opening move. (Also staff users and other attack movements can cheat with this skill and move without setting off the no movement requirement.)
Throw potions: Rank D-, It is soo close to useless. The range is right to make it a fair perk, but potions are already hard to justify. Unless you have a hero with a bunch of bag slots and have gold to burn I guess.

Teir 2
Mark: Rank C-, I've never picked it up myself before so I cannot attest to the range, but a way to ensure those pesky crawlers hold still for once, sign me up.
Cold stone stunning: Rank B, kinda like the poison skill if you've got something good then make it better. Not as many points where I see a need to stun as I personally rather kill, but I do know for a fact stunning has saved a few nights of mine.
Soul reaper: Rank C-, It's hard to say it's worthless as aside from the first night it does give you those souls to unlock things, butttt it's so slow to rack up a use I normally just pick it up if I really have nothing else that I see in the first two that will help a hero now.
Initiator: Rank A+, I'd S rank this one to but there are weapons where this skill would be fully wasted, and this skill does tie back to my dislike of critting. If you kill a foe the boon ends so I prefer to plan out my moves do some light damage to get everyone in *Zombie dies* DAMN IT NOT AGAIN!
Leapfrog: Rank F, You'd think I'd like to combo this with the last skill... buttt if I have to kill an enemy anyways then I'm just going to kill it and save my movement points to walk over it's corpse.
Cheer: Rank C-, Requires you to have a full enough team that your heroes will be close enough to get the buff, but hey free skill with no AP use.
Back protection: Rank C, It's nice that it's a base 20, and I'll throw it on an archer or long range spell hero if nothing else is around.
Cherry picking: Rank D, So we're giving a min damage boost to if you find a monster out of the hoard grouping. There is a better way to boost your min damage like....
(Posting the next tiers now)

[Keyen]

Well, it reduces the propagation damage by 3%, and it's actually a big deal. At 90% propagation damage, it will look like this:
https://i.imgur.com/4t2POmQ.png

At 85% (base) it will look like this:
https://i.imgur.com/b2Zw10E.png

As I said, if you have enough base damage to kill absolutely everyone, it's fine. But you need to overkill the first target by a large amount.

[Fringehunter7719]

I see, thanks.

It's still amazing on weapons like dagger and spear.

[Keyen]

Dunno. I played a lot of wands builds (which are in a similar position than spear/daggers), and it actually amount to one more kill per turn. It's fairly underwhelming when you kill already 20-30+ monsters a turn with 4-5 multihits. It also does literally nothing if you have already 5 multihits.

[kory]

Leapfrog is great for melee, it allows you to move two spaces with 1 move point, it is often 2 or 3 movement each turn.

[Fringehunter7719]

Keyen a écrit :

Dunno. I played a lot of wands builds (which are in a similar position than spear/daggers), and it actually amount to one more kill per turn. It's fairly underwhelming when you kill already 20-30+ monsters a turn with 4-5 multihits. It also does literally nothing if you have already 5 multihits.

It tends to be better earlier in a run when you don't have enough firepower to trivialise everything. Even then a 3%-5% increase in killing power (one more target on 20-30 kills) still makes it a respectable talent, compared to the very limited impact of most of them.

It's also often possible to make it persist to a second or third attack by using it to soften up high HP targets first time around. That probably happens a lot more with daggers than wands though, to be fair.

Obviously, having more multihit across all six heroes allows you to move items around for a stronger overall team as well, if you're in danger of hitting the multihit cap on one particular hero.

[CheckYourSix]

I already "ranked" the perks in my guide. Although after the buff coagulation might be a bit higher.

[princeazazel]

Keyen a écrit :

Very strange that none of the objectivily busted perks are S in your tier list.

Mana collector rank B. Incredible. It's by a long shot the most ridiculous perk and is long overdue a nerf...
I don't understand the question. How Initiator reduces the damage of chain lightning?

No worries this is why I wanted the list to see how others would think of such skills. So if you read what the little bio on it was for all of the perks I've been saying no thank you to ANY crit damage. And because mana collector works on critting it's not a skill I actively wish for. The reason for not wanting to crit is because Initiator is normally the back bone of my builds and many skills work delightfully well with it. Initiator turns off when that hero makes a kill and because crits can cause a kill before I was ready to start that's why it gets a non A or S rank from me.

For initiator yes it does lower the damage by all of 3% but to get an extra foe hit means you'd have to already be chaining about 33 foes to see a net loss.... or not be able to use full chain damage. This nerf doesn't apply to the muti hit target which is more where I focus it's use so it's a very acceptable trade to me. Thanks for the questions and discussions Keyen. This also said you guys think I should update the perks that were tweeked today?

[princeazazel]

CheckYourSix a écrit :

I already "ranked" the perks in my guide. Although after the buff coagulation might be a bit higher.

Oh I fully agree, a 50% buff I think it was just makes that a big ol A rank to me now. Even if it's just base recovery now that's roughly a good 20 points.

[Keyen]

princeazazel a écrit :

For initiator yes it does lower the damage by all of 3% but to get an extra foe hit means you'd have to already be chaining about 33 foes to see a net loss....

That's not how propagation damage works. And initiator is +2 bounces, not +1.

[princeazazel]

Keyen a écrit :

princeazazel a écrit :

For initiator yes it does lower the damage by all of 3% but to get an extra foe hit means you'd have to already be chaining about 33 foes to see a net loss....

That's not how propagation damage works. And initiator is +2 bounces, not +1.

Huh go figure. Again I really more just use it for the muti hit than the extra bounces. Still some other news on it, it doesn't lower poison damage inflected so it is super useful on the druid staff, also it double helps the one handed cross bow's fire arrows. More muti hits and more shared damage.

[princeazazel]

On the chain damage I'm actually questioning now if the math posted is correct. 2nd enemy in my chain took 196 damage 8th took 126. There was a difference of 6 resistance but with the spell being magic the difference would be all of 3% and the 2nd guy had 16 block so I think chain damage uses a different equation.

[kory]

Propagation damage multiplies with each bounce, so if 90% then the second bounce does 81% (which is 90%*90%).