Steam Deck Controls

[Ranzera]

I'm going to try to be constructive here, but I need to get this off my chest first.. How, how, HOW, does a game that bills itself as an illegitimate daughter of the phenomenal Final Fantasy Tactics and Dark Souls end up with controller mapping this magnificently horrawfulble???

First off, there should not be a button that directly ends turn/production phase without an always forced confirmation prompt. Secondly, that button *definitely* shouldn't be mapped to the XABY buttons by default. Thirdly, that button absolutely should not have other functions shared with it. As a player, you can't remove it, because you want to be able to dagger perks. If you do move it, there's still a nuclear "♥♥♥♥ your run" button void calling to your thumbs.

There needs to be a method to move through tiles on the map with the D-pad, FFT style. You guys referenced that game on your own web site. I know you know there's a better way than what you've implemented.

The in game controls tab in the options menu is greyed out and I feel that really should be accessible. It's much better for the player to be able to set button mapping inside the game so that the button guides can update to reflect the actual mappings being used. Using a custom control profile, the in game controls still use the default guides and that isn't the best.

I really hope that one of the DLCs redresses the UI for a controller. This UI works very well for mouse and keyboard, perhaps there can be something done to streamline the controls for the steam deck. I'm curious what they do on the consoles because I sincerely don't believe they could sell units unless that version is substantially different.

There does exist some community profiles, which attempt at adapting the steam deck interface to keyboard and mouse controls. While they are somewhat better, they are pretty janky (as you would expect) and for some reason ability tabbing just doesn't seem to work with them like it does on the "official controls", even if you manually implement those button mappings yourself.

It's all very frustrating and I don't think I'll play this game on my deck until the situation improves.

ETA: I forgot to include it when I was writing this... maybe it's me (quite possible), but I couldn't find a way to rename characters with the official controls. It would be really helpful to be able to do this because I edit names to include build cues so I remember who's doing what at a glance.

[Ranzera]

Alright, a few days have passed and I've cooled off a bit. I love your game. I want it to be good. I want your controls to be buttery smooth. I spent several real life hours writing this for you and I hope that knowing this informs you that I care about your game. It's really good.

Not that it matters, but I'm a dev myself, so I have a pretty good handle on suggesting things that will be reasonable for you to implement with a modest amount of work.

I'm here to be maximally constructive and I'm going to give some detailed feedback here. First though, I'm going to recommend you get a few keys for a game called XCom: Enemy Unknown for your dev team. I consider this game to be a master class in blending Kb & mouse with controller inputs. Spend a few hours with it. They *will* have some ideas. It's been out for quite a while now (a bit more than a decade) and should be pretty cheap.

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| Additions to OP |
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Before I get into the main part of the post, I want to take a moment to add 2 things to my OP here.

1: The button mappings for leveling up are clunky. You can only move the selector up and down with the Left Joystick and you can only switch between primary and secondary attributes with the D-Pad Left and D-Pad Right. That is not a good user experience. Just make both, do both. Which brings me to..

2: In a game like this, the D-Pad and the Left Joystick really should just have the exact same goals with mapping. The D-Pad is more efficient to navigate menus and the map (like in Final Fantasy Tactics), the Left Joystick is more efficient when navigating the stage select. Plus everyone prefers one over the other and there's 2 camps here.

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| Terminology |
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With that out of the way, I'm going to go over the controls in Production Phase and Battle Phase on a button by button basis. The controls in the other areas are largely "fine" and they are a small enough part of the game to not really impact the user experience anyway. I'm also going to assume that the additional 4 back buttons on the Steam Deck are off limits since you didn't map anything to them, possibly due to those buttons not existing on your other ports.

I'm going to refer to the right hand "XABY / Square, Circle, X, Triangle" buttons as Top, Bottom, Left, Right for clarity. Whenever I reference D-Pad Left (or Joystick Left) or D-Pad Right (or Joystick Right) I will pre-pend the D-Pad (or Joystick), so you can assume I'm always talking about the right hand buttons when I say "Left" or "Right". It'd be nice if these companies just standardized this stuff, but what can ya do? lol.

Right and Bottom vary with user preference. Some people like confirm on Right, some people like Cancel on Right. I blame Sony. I'm going to reference these assuming Confirm is on Right.

These are my *OPINIONS*. I am not the ambassador of controllers. This is what I would do if I were designing controller mappings for your game.

[Ranzera]

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| Battle Phase |
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These are mostly QoL improvements, along with fixes to the "End Turn" situation. My suggestions abandon the "Snap Camera on Cursor" action. The built in "Snap Cursor to Camera" functionality to Left Joystick largely satisfies the same goal in a more automated way. I think it is a small loss compared to how much there is to be gained from the below, maybe others would disagree.

D-Pad
This should move the cursor 1 tile per button press. A D-Pad Up button press should move the selected tile, 1 tile North-East. The rest should be mapped relative to this.

Left Joystick
Unchanged. (Cursor Movement)

Left Joystick Click.
Toggle Turbo Speed.

Right Joystick
Unchanged. (Camera Movement)

Right Joystick Click
Unchanged. (Zoom Toggle)

Left Track Pad
Cursor Movement. (Currently not mapped.)

Right Track Pad
Unchanged. (Camera Movement)

Top
Activates the menu cursor and snaps to the "Character Sheet" GUI Button by default, but can be moved to the "End Turn" GUI Button (currently not possible) with 1 D-Pad (or Left Joystick) press Up OR 2 D-Pad (or Left Joystick) presses Down (Menu wrapping).

Right / Confirm
Unchanged. (Confirm Action)

Bottom / Cancel
Mostly unchanged with one exception. (Cancel Action)

After all available selections have been canceled, this button then switches to "Last Movement Cancel" mode, instead of deselecting the current Hero. If all movements have been canceled, THEN deselect the current Hero.

Left
When the Hero ability bar is activated with Left Trigger, or Right Trigger, OR when an enemy is selected: Toggle tool tips.
Any other time: Show Enemy Movement range.

Select
End Turn with an ***ALWAYS FORCED*** confirmation prompt. Press "Right / Confirm" to confirm end turn. Press "Bottom / Cancel" to cancel. Unspent AP/unmoved Hero prompts should also appear here if those options are enabled in the options menu.

I cannot stress this enough, "Right / Confirm" to confirm and "Bottom / Cancel" to cancel. Even with a forced confirmation screen, players will still accidentally end their turn if a second "Select" press confirms the End Turn.

Start
Unchanged. (Open Options menu)

Left Shoulder
Unchanged. (Change Selected Hero, left 1 Hero)

Right Shoulder
Unchanged. (Change Selected Hero, right 1 Hero)

Left Trigger
Unchanged. (Change Selected ability, left 1 position)

Right Trigger
Unchanged. (Change Selected ability, right 1 position)

[Ranzera]

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| Production Phase |
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There is a whole lot of QoL improvements happening here. I think this section suffers more than Battle Phase with the official controller mappings. The amount of "whoops, I didn't mean to do that" I went through with the official control mappings, is too damn high (ha ha).

D-Pad
This should mirror every function that is currently mapped to the Left Joystick.

In context to the Level Up menu, this should be able to switch between Primary Attributes and Secondary Attributes with a D-Pad Left press and D-Pad Right press. This should be able to navigate up and down the Level-Up attributes with D-Pad Up and D-Pad Down.

In context to placing Heroes, Buildings and Defensive Structures on the map, this should use the same tile based movement used in the Battle Phase controls. A D-Pad Up press should move the selected tile 1 tile to the North-East and the rest should be mapped relative to this.

Left Joystick
Mostly Unchanged. (Menu Selection and Cursor Movement)

In context to the Level Up menu, this should be able to switch between Primary Attributes and Secondary Attributes with a Joystick Left press and Joystick Right press. This should be able to navigate up and down the Level-Up attributes with Joystick Up and Joystick Down.

Left Joystick Click.
Unchanged. (Snap Camera to Cursor)

Right Joystick
Somewhat Unchanged. (Camera Movement and Menu Group Navigation)

All of it's Character Sheet screen functionality should be removed and replaced by my suggestions below.

Right Joystick Click
Unchanged. (Zoom Toggle)

Left Track Pad
Cursor Movement. (Currently not mapped.)

Right Track Pad
Unchanged. (Camera Movement)

Top
There's going to be a lot going on here. I'll try to be precise with my wording.

---

While the City Map is visible *AND* the Selected Tile Cursor is visible on the city map:

1: Hide the Selected Tile Cursor.
2: Slightly Dim the City Map area.
3: Unhide the Menu Selection Cursor, positioned at the top of the Commander's Journal.

This achieves several goals at once. It gives the player a strong visual cue that they have opened the menu. It forces the player to navigate through the Commander's Journal in order to get to the basic menu options below, giving them incentive and reminders to complete those tasks. It puts the cursor as close as possible to the End Phase button as possible in case they want to quickly end turn (if for some reason, someone where to.. unmap that button).

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While the City Map is visible *AND* the Menu Selection Cursor is visible:

1: Nothing

The player can use Bottom / Cancel button to return from the menu.

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While the Shop screen is visible OR
City Stash tab in the Character Sheet screen is visible:

1: Toggle between the Shop and City Stash tab in the Character Sheet.

Huge QoL improvement here. This removes a lot of the reason to need to use Left Joystick or D-Pad (not currently mapped) to navigate the various elements on the right side of the screen and instead force them to navigate only in the selection windows.

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While the Character Details tab is visible in the Character Sheet screen *AND* there is an available Level-Up:

1: Open the Level-Up Screen.

This is stealing functionality from Left, but it's more consistent that the "Menu" button opens this Menu. Besides, Left is getting a new function here anyway.

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While the Character Details tab is visible in the Character Sheet screen *AND* there is *NOT* an available Level-Up:

1: Nothing

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While the Level-Up screen is visible in the Character Sheet screen OR
While the Perks screen is visible in the Character Sheet screen *AND* there is an available Level-Up:

1: Toggle between the Level-Up screen and the Perks screen.

This isn't obvious at a glance, but this is a pretty darn awesome optimization for players who need to see their perk choices to make decisions while picking attributes. This, again, also helps remove the reason for D-Pad and Left Joystick selection cursor to directly interact with elements on the upper portions on the right side of the Character Sheet screens.


Right / Confirm
Mostly Unchanged, with the below additions to functionality. (Confirm Action)

While the Perk tab is visible in the Character Sheet screen:

1: If the Perk is trainable with an available Talent point:

1: Open a confirmation prompt to Train or Dagger a perk (**NEW**).

1a1: A Right / Confirm press will Train the perk.
1a2: Return to the Perk tab in the Character Sheet screen.

1b1: A Left press will Dagger the perk.
1b2: Return to the Perk tab in the Character Sheet screen.

1c1: A Bottom / Cancel press will return to the Perk tab in the Character Sheet screen.

2: If the Perk is *NOT* trainable OR
There is *NO* available Talent point:

1: Dagger the perk.

Even PC users have to hit a second button to train perks. The fact that Right / Confirm just outright trains a perk with no confirmation makes accidental selections a certainty. File this one under *massive* QoL improvement.


Bottom / Cancel
Unchanged. (Cancel Action)

Left
Mostly takes the functionality currently assigned to Top. (Secondary Functions)

All Screens:
Toggle Tool tips.


Select
End Phase with an ***ALWAYS FORCED*** confirmation prompt. Press "Right / Confirm" to confirm end turn. Press "Bottom / Cancel" to cancel. Claimed Rewards, Level-Up, Unspent Gold/Material prompts should also appear here if those options are enabled in the options menu.

I cannot stress this enough, "Right / Confirm" to confirm and "Bottom / Cancel" to cancel. Even with a forced confirmation screen, players will still accidentally end their turn if a second "Select" press confirms the End Phase.

Start
Unchanged. (Open Options menu)

Left Shoulder
Unchanged. (Change Selected Hero, left 1 Hero)

Right Shoulder
Unchanged. (Change Selected Hero, right 1 Hero)

Left Trigger
Mostly Unchanged. (Change Selected building/defensive structures, left 1 position) OR
(Navigate Left 1 tab in the "Character Sheet/City Stash/Perks" screen)

This should be disabled while the level up screen is visible.

Right Trigger
Mostly Unchanged. (Change Selected building/defensive structures, right 1 position) OR
(Navigate Right 1 tab in the "Character Sheet/City Stash/Perks" screen)

This should be disabled while the level up screen is visible.

[Ranzera]

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| Battle AND Production Phase |
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New: When opening OR changing to the Character Details tab on in the Character Sheet screens, the menu cursor should be hidden.

While the Character Details tab is visible in the Character Sheet screen:
1. Left button press reveals the menu cursor and positions it at the left most Character Trait. Tool tips are automatically enabled.
2. Right / Confirm button press reveals the menu cursor and positions it at the Hero Customization GUI button. Tool tips are automatically enabled.
3. Left Trigger changes the active tab to the Perks tab.
3a. Unhide Menu Cursor
3b. Position Menu Cursor at the first row, first column of the Perk Selection Grid.
4. Right Trigger changes the active tab to the City Stash tab.
4a. Unhide Menu Cursor
4b. Position Menu Cursor at the first row, first column of the City Stash Grid.

With both Left and Right / Confirm presses, the player can then move the cursor to the various Hero statistics to read tool tips.

New: In the City Stash tab in the Character Sheet screens, the only navigable elements are the Currently Equipped Gear and City Stash Grid. The Menu Cursor does not move to any other element.

New: In the Perks tab in the Character Sheet screens, the only navigable element is the Perk Selection grid. The Menu Cursor does not move to any other element.

New: In all Character Sheet Screens, the Right Joystick and Right Track Pad can no longer interact with the Menu cursor.

This consolidates the cursor movement to just 1 set of controls on the left sight of the controller/Steam Deck. Sometimes more choices to do the same task is more confusing than helpful. It's not like it's even an apples to apples control set as it only selects a group of elements to interact with, rather than an individual element. It just adds to the clunk without expressly being clunky itself.

To Summarize
By restricting cursor movement, you speed up how quickly the player can navigate your menus. All of those elements are still navigable on the Character Details tab, it's just not getting in the way of the rest of the tabs. It's still be visible, just not navigable.


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| Closing Thoughts |
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Honestly, if it were up to me, I'd just remove the "End Turn/Phase" mapping entirely. I left it on there to meet you guys half way. I honestly think it'd serve the game much better to remove it and use the Select Button to toggle Turbo Mode in the Battle Phase (returning "Snap Camera to Cursor" to Left Joystick Click) and just have Select do nothing in the Production Phase. Ending your Turn or Phase should be a deliberate action that takes more than a single button press. It protects you, the player, from accidentally launching your run into the Sun.

I can think of 2 common scenarios where even turning on ALL warning prompts will not protect you from accidentally ending your Turn or Phase.

1, Battle Phase: You've spent all your AP and have moved all your characters. Now you need to use Blink/Sprint/Teleport Scroll/Warp Crystal to move one of your Heroes to safety. You accidentally hit the "End Turn" button conveniently located on the Left button. Your Hero dies. GG.

2, Production Phase. You've stripped off a bunch of common (brown) gear to sell at the shop to afford <insert thing here>. For whatever reason you aren't using the toggle shop/city stash button (I know these people exist <.< >.>). You back out of your City Stash and accidentally hit the "End Turn" button conveniently located on the Left button. You're currently broke, gathered your reward, did your levels, placed your ballistas. Time for the next Phase! I hope you didn't need that thing!

We players of RPGs and Turn Based Strategy (TBS) games since the SNES have always associated the Menu button with Top. It is baffling that you banished it all the way over to Select and doubly that you put "End Turn/Phase" on Left. Left in these kinds of games has always been a secondary function key. When you change these controls, you're going against decades of muscle memory in gamers.

With the changes I suggested to the Character Sheet screens, it should be possible to make most of the elements on upper right portions of the Character Sheet screens non-navigable. The sole exceptions to this being Hero Customization GUI button and the Dismiss Hero GUI button. That will go a long way to making Production Phase feel less clunky.

Weirdly, the one thing that the Right Joystick doesn't do in the Character Sheet screens is navigate to the Shop/City Stash toggle GUI button in the City Stash. I'm sure this was just an oversight.

Well that took longer than I intended to write up *and* Steam made me break it up into multiple comments (always a bad sign, lmao). I hope some of that is helpful to you.

[Ranzera]

It looks like all my beautiful formatting was annihilated when I posted. Could you pretend that looks pretty? Appreciated >.>;;;;

[cristole]

Yeah agreed, I tried playing this on Steam deck and everything feels so wrong. Gave up in the end and returned to playing it on PC.

It's a real shame because the graphics and grid turn-based nature of the game is perfect for the Steam deck.

[Rossco]

Credit to you, most people just grumble. You gave constructive feedback.

[ZeroGPX]

I am still going through your points, but I really wish the developers can take a look and appreciate your effort.

This is an awesome, but the controls are just...horrible. All the buttons feels like...let's just put something there and yeah the users can find the tiny circle with their eyes. Play many times and I still can't get a hang of it. I think there is little thought into the Human User Interface for the controller schemes...like what would the user most instinctively press when they try to do this, or what would they want to access after accessing this. There are other games where the controller scheme's implementation brings the turn based game to a whole other level...then there's TLS...starting from a super awesome game.

Award for you, really wish your effort isn't wasted.

[GustsKvothe]

Any updates on this? Was any of it implemented at all?

[Ronin-XIII]

Curious if there's any updates on how the steam deck is working for people.

[Amaroks]

it's a pity that the developers don't even get in touch here

[Oaks]

Aha, this is too bad. I was going to buy this for my 'deck, glad I saw this first.

[That Fish Guy]

I use Bluetooth m+kb mostly for deck controls and the game works perfectly, but that isn't the solution to this thread

[Ronin-XIII]

I've been playing on my steam deck with no modifications and default controls. Could be better but honestly been working pretty good.

[Ranzera]

Wow, didn't expect to see this on page 1. I wrote that up so long ago lol. The state of the official controls is unfortunate. It's really too bad that they are putting out surveys for feedback on the apocalypse levels when their controls make the game outright unenjoyable to play.

I hope they eventually have a look at it. This game could be a *lot* better on the steam deck.