New patch makes this game way to hard...

[Moforkus]

The lakeburg boss is now just insane...starts off invincible, had 3K health on head and tail plus armor, you have to kill it 3 times, plus deal with eggs and wyrmlings if they spawn, plus all the enemies. Plus it can wreck your base (when invincible) and the boomers/acid guys and giant tank guys are everywhere too...

I am all for a challenge but I mean...come on. At least include some more difficulty options...I know exactly how to kill the boss, I just cannot do it and that is way more frustrating than it is fun...understanding the mechanics is easy, actually doing it...not so much, especially when you changed the level ups (as it seems way harder to pick the build I want...and I rely way more on RNG).

Anyways devs...please include more difficulty options or something so that the people who like it as is can enjoy things and people like me can actually have a chance...

Edit: in summary I think the game changed too much from the way it was and become "too" hard.

Previous to this patch it was about a 6/10 for difficulty and I enjoyed it. Now post-patch it is closer to a 9/10. To me that is too much change all at once.

I would be fine with this if the bosses were not the same difficulty no matter what level you chose (i.e. normal/easy difficulty of bosses does not change). Each map is significantly harder because of the bosses and the game is just unbalanced now...as an EA title I am hoping the devs respond by including more options for difficulty and or just not forcing people who choose normal/easy difficulty to face the same boss fight experience as those who choose apocalypse options for difficulty.

[Bumc]

People did complain that game is too easy in previous patch.
I don't really want to reset progression, but I ought to at least check the new balance out without all the meta unlocks.

[Deadweight]

I'd consider myself fairly competent at the game, I love the genre and have put in a whole heap of hours, I reset my progress and it took me 4 attempts to beat the first 7 day map, now I'm on lakeburg 5 and unlocked the seer 2 runs ago but still struggling to make progress. I feel like I've hit a wall and hate the idea of grinding out the first 5-6 days, barely surviving hoping for RNG and better meta unlocks.

The game definitely feels harder, but I haven't wrapped my head around the new economy yet either.

[Bumc]

From what I've tested with most relevant meta unlocks on Apoc-6 early economy seems the same as last patch, except after 1 mine you don't rush second and spam different production buildings instead -- going wide is better now as item levels get upgraded across the board.

[Leiraion]

I'm still mostly rushing 3 fully upgraded gold mines and then building production buildings. Especially before apoc4 were you have a lot of money.
The short version is something like...
Start off scavenging with gold focus the first few days and get yourself to 10 workers.
then gold mines fully upgraded then at least one scavenger camp, then build all production buildings (both armor makers, blacksmith, bowyer, magic shop) and fully upgrade item level, then fully upgrade their production+.

I wouldn't mind them throwing in some other difficulty options for people but for now, try to learn some nasty perk combinations, look at all your hero's perks at lvl 2 and decide a route for them then. Don't plan as you go.
You should have 6 powerhouses by night 12.

[Moforkus]

My problem is not that I don't know what to do...I know how to kill the boss as I have researched it online...I am just getting overwhelmed with strong enemies, a boss who can wreck my defenses/base and one shot my heroes (who has 3K hp on himself and his tail) and needs to be killed multiple times...who also spawns little hydra things as well (or crazy eggs with high armor). I know what to do...I just cannot do it...which is making me mad. I completely understand what I need to do, I cannot do it because the boss fight is now 3-4 times harder than the previous boss (pre-patch). As far as I am concerned on normal (which is what I am playing) it should be scaled down for normal. Higher difficulties are already harder anyways, so even having to kill the boss one time on apocalypse would be hard with tougher enemies, weakened economy etc.

They took a game that I enjoyed and have now made it a game for hardcore players only...market your game as a dark souls game next time so I don't waste my money devs...uninstalling this until and unless they fix what they did.

[licker34]

The game includes various 'easy' settings, so seemingly the option to tweak things to make it fit whatever difficulty you are looking for already exists.

I did a complete reset for the latest patch (never tried it on the beta). Getting through Glimmerwald (? is that it? the one with the birds)was a PITA for about 5 restarts until I had enough unlocks to be able to crush it.

Got through Lakeburg in one shot though with still only partial unlocks. So it's very doable, but you do have to adjust your build priorities from before. Basically I only build houses and workers to 8 or 10, then pop a gold mine (or two) then start adding a couple producers and max out gold, so by day 5 I should have at least one fully upgraded gold mine, an armorer, and maybe a couple other things if I needed to build a mana shrine for some reason.

After that, it's mostly about maxing weapons levels and just abusing the shop as much as I can to fill in any critical missing equipment. It feels much easier to get the seer and the tavern thatn it did before, and even though heroes are more expensive, at least getting the 4th one is easy, and with 4 you can usually coast a couple more nights until you feel the need to get the 5th and maybe the 6th depending on your needs.

So yeah, the game is not 'too hard', and the game offers you 'cheats' to customize your starts at least if you want to make it easier.

[Moforkus]

Originally posted by licker34:

The game includes various 'easy' settings, so seemingly the option to tweak things to make it fit whatever difficulty you are looking for already exists.

I did a complete reset for the latest patch (never tried it on the beta). Getting through Glimmerwald (? is that it? the one with the birds)was a PITA for about 5 restarts until I had enough unlocks to be able to crush it.

Got through Lakeburg in one shot though with still only partial unlocks. So it's very doable, but you do have to adjust your build priorities from before. Basically I only build houses and workers to 8 or 10, then pop a gold mine (or two) then start adding a couple producers and max out gold, so by day 5 I should have at least one fully upgraded gold mine, an armorer, and maybe a couple other things if I needed to build a mana shrine for some reason.

After that, it's mostly about maxing weapons levels and just abusing the shop as much as I can to fill in any critical missing equipment. It feels much easier to get the seer and the tavern thatn it did before, and even though heroes are more expensive, at least getting the 4th one is easy, and with 4 you can usually coast a couple more nights until you feel the need to get the 5th and maybe the 6th depending on your needs.

So yeah, the game is not 'too hard', and the game offers you 'cheats' to customize your starts at least if you want to make it easier.

no it does not...even on easy you still have to kill the boss the same way I described, you still get overwhelmed with enemies and he still one shots your heroes...I know because I enabled it thinking it would help me kill him...and guess what...NO it did not. If the game has to have a perfect build to defeat a stage, then they devs have failed. There should be many paths to victory...I am not some min/max basement dweller who wants to dedicate the next 2 months trying to get past the same level..the difficulty jump from this patch is insane and needs to be tweaked ASAP. Clicking the easy tab lets you start with an extra hero at the beginning and a few other perks but does nothing to influence actual boss fights/mechanics. Sorry but you are plain wrong. Prior to this patch this game was about a 6 out of 10 for difficulty. Now it is clearly a 9 or a 10. That is a big jump and not at all the way the game was marketed...I feel betrayed for having spent my money on it now...and the game is just not fun this way.

[Leiraion]

If Cetusia is 1 shotting your heroes then you have to be playing with the glass cannon perk and have no +hp rolls from levels or on gear.
Otherwise, you must be running your heroes with very low armor.... Perhaps you are not valuing hp and armor on your heroes?

Generally speaking, every hero I have, even ones with glass cannon, will have about 120+ hp (usually closer to 180) and over 200 armor on night 12 Lakeburg.

If you only have 1 or 2 tanky heroes, then put them on the northwest and northeast sides of the map. This way, Cetusia is most likely to attack them.
Also, pick up a T4 or T5 hp potion for them. This will help you restore some hp from the poison tics.

If you plan correctly and burn your mana each turn (don't conserve mana on night 12!) you shouldn't be overwhelmed playing on normal with the -20% wave size easy mode modifier on.

Cetusia's boss logic works out that if you kill the tail and head the same turn they become attackable (turn 3) they'll both be attackable again on turn 5, then the red head spawns on turn 7. You can win on turn 7.


Again, this isn't to say they shouldn't expand the easy mode options. TBH, I don't see why not.
Meanwhile, keep in mind, I have personally beaten Cetusia on Apoc 6 multiple times so far. With a lot of game knowledge and optimization it's not bad. Glenwald is far worse, and even that is beatable on the current patch on apoc6. Keep trying, you will win!

[Yme]

Originally posted by Letsatsi:

Keep trying, you will win!

How many metaprogression unlocks do you think you need to comfortably win Lakeburg on Normal?

[Bumc]

if we're talking comfortably and not clutching it out, probably all +AP on heroes and maybe wealthy hamlet-I to get a bit of a jumpstart in economy day 1.
And obviously stuff like gold mine, seer, inn and ballistas.
Any weapon unlocks still make the game harder, or at least less comfortable, even with expanded shop inventory.

[Leiraion]

Originally posted by Yme:

How many metaprogression unlocks do you think you need to comfortably win Lakeburg on Normal?

With exceptional game knowledge, only the gold mine, Inn, and the Seer. In the past, it was possible (although extremely difficult) to beat Lakeburg on your first run with 0 meta progression unlocked. With Cetusia out, I haven't tried that again.. but I doubt its the case now.
However, that's as realistic as telling you that with exceptional game knowledge you can win Hades on the first run.

I think most people would need the 3 mentioned, as well as the +AP metas, and various others like your heroes starting with better gear or bonuses specific to them (melee ranged or magic).
The Wealthy Haven 1 and 2 meta, although expensive, is extremely beneficial to starting your economy. Early money is powerful.
The Catapult meta is very powerful as well, I think a lot of people underestimate it. For example, a ballista tower can attack once per turn, and twice per round when upgraded. Typical nights go 5-6 turns. This means even an upgraded ballista can only attack 10-12 targets per night assuming it gets to attack every turn.
A Catapult doesn't need to be upgraded and can hit up to 13 targets twice each night. So it's possible to damage 26 enemies each night.

[Bumc]

Also catapult does physical area damage (as opposed to ranged single-target), which means all your magic and ranged heroes who didn't get good weapon and are struggling to deal with armored enemies suddenly can one-tap weakened walking plate mail zombies.
Catapult is more of a power pick while ballista is a comfort pick (drop a bunch of these and you won't have to worry about runners coming too close on one side of the base).

[licker34]

Originally posted by Moforkus:

no it does not...even on easy you still have to kill the boss the same way I described, you still get overwhelmed with enemies and he still one shots your heroes...I know because I enabled it thinking it would help me kill him...and guess what...NO it did not. If the game has to have a perfect build to defeat a stage, then they devs have failed. There should be many paths to victory...I am not some min/max basement dweller who wants to dedicate the next 2 months trying to get past the same level..the difficulty jump from this patch is insane and needs to be tweaked ASAP. Clicking the easy tab lets you start with an extra hero at the beginning and a few other perks but does nothing to influence actual boss fights/mechanics. Sorry but you are plain wrong. Prior to this patch this game was about a 6 out of 10 for difficulty. Now it is clearly a 9 or a 10. That is a big jump and not at all the way the game was marketed...I feel betrayed for having spent my money on it now...and the game is just not fun this way.

Uggg, use some paragraphs my dude.

Killing the boss isn't that hard though, I did it on my first play through without any cheats/hints as to what it was or how to set up. Indeed I had my best archer on the wrong side of the town, so once I realized what the boss was I had to waste a turn or two relocating and taking additional attacks from the boss.

Also, in that playthrough I never unlocked ballista or catapult because I think they are pretty bad overall until you just have too many resources to spend on anything else.

Basically, it sounds as though you don't understand various mechanics in this game. I don't think you can be very successful in this game if you refuse to min/max at least to some degree. Though I tend to play with an additional limitation that whatever weapon my characters start with, that's what they use (upgrades are fine). So it's not until I get an inn and start hiring new heroes that I can diversify into other weapons.

Using the easy tab may not make the boss weaker, but it should make your situation stronger when you get to the last night. You should have more resources invested in equipment and walls or traps or whatever you like, because you cleared earlier waves more easily.

Anyway, if you feel betrayed than that's how you feel, you probably don't care about people giving you tips or explaining things.

[Moforkus]

Originally posted by Letsatsi:

If Cetusia is 1 shotting your heroes then you have to be playing with the glass cannon perk and have no +hp rolls from levels or on gear.
Otherwise, you must be running your heroes with very low armor.... Perhaps you are not valuing hp and armor on your heroes?

Generally speaking, every hero I have, even ones with glass cannon, will have about 120+ hp (usually closer to 180) and over 200 armor on night 12 Lakeburg.

If you only have 1 or 2 tanky heroes, then put them on the northwest and northeast sides of the map. This way, Cetusia is most likely to attack them.
Also, pick up a T4 or T5 hp potion for them. This will help you restore some hp from the poison tics.

If you plan correctly and burn your mana each turn (don't conserve mana on night 12!) you shouldn't be overwhelmed playing on normal with the -20% wave size easy mode modifier on.

Cetusia's boss logic works out that if you kill the tail and head the same turn they become attackable (turn 3) they'll both be attackable again on turn 5, then the red head spawns on turn 7. You can win on turn 7.


Again, this isn't to say they shouldn't expand the easy mode options. TBH, I don't see why not.
Meanwhile, keep in mind, I have personally beaten Cetusia on Apoc 6 multiple times so far. With a lot of game knowledge and optimization it's not bad. Glenwald is far worse, and even that is beatable on the current patch on apoc6. Keep trying, you will win!

no glass cannon perks at all...but I was definitely one-shotted. But thanks for telling me what I experienced...wow...

[Moforkus]

Originally posted by licker34:

Originally posted by Moforkus:

no it does not...even on easy you still have to kill the boss the same way I described, you still get overwhelmed with enemies and he still one shots your heroes...I know because I enabled it thinking it would help me kill him...and guess what...NO it did not. If the game has to have a perfect build to defeat a stage, then they devs have failed. There should be many paths to victory...I am not some min/max basement dweller who wants to dedicate the next 2 months trying to get past the same level..the difficulty jump from this patch is insane and needs to be tweaked ASAP. Clicking the easy tab lets you start with an extra hero at the beginning and a few other perks but does nothing to influence actual boss fights/mechanics. Sorry but you are plain wrong. Prior to this patch this game was about a 6 out of 10 for difficulty. Now it is clearly a 9 or a 10. That is a big jump and not at all the way the game was marketed...I feel betrayed for having spent my money on it now...and the game is just not fun this way.

Uggg, use some paragraphs my dude.

Killing the boss isn't that hard though, I did it on my first play through without any cheats/hints as to what it was or how to set up. Indeed I had my best archer on the wrong side of the town, so once I realized what the boss was I had to waste a turn or two relocating and taking additional attacks from the boss.

Also, in that playthrough I never unlocked ballista or catapult because I think they are pretty bad overall until you just have too many resources to spend on anything else.

Basically, it sounds as though you don't understand various mechanics in this game. I don't think you can be very successful in this game if you refuse to min/max at least to some degree. Though I tend to play with an additional limitation that whatever weapon my characters start with, that's what they use (upgrades are fine). So it's not until I get an inn and start hiring new heroes that I can diversify into other weapons.

Using the easy tab may not make the boss weaker, but it should make your situation stronger when you get to the last night. You should have more resources invested in equipment and walls or traps or whatever you like, because you cleared earlier waves more easily.

Anyway, if you feel betrayed than that's how you feel, you probably don't care about people giving you tips or explaining things.

your logic is flawed.."I find it easy" therefore it is easy. Our forums are rife with people talking about the massive difficulty spike after the patch (which is EXACTLY) what I am saying. I understand what I need to do in the game, it is just impossible for me to to it and I am not playing the game like a pro for the next 2 months to figure out the perfect combination to actually beat that boss. What part of that is not fun to me did you not understand? The game was fun pre-patch and now is not. My "skills" did not change, the game did...that is my problem and many other people's as well.

I guess you don't care about things like objective fact or reality...