New enemy types [Suggestion]

[Terran]

I felt like there were a few roles that weren't feeling quite filled by the current roster. I had a few thoughts on these, maybe some of them are good. Or not. If any immediate flaws are noticed (of which I'd assume there are many), please let me know. Or don't.

Name: Grappler

• HP: Average
  
• Armor: Low
  
• Speed: Average
  
• Block: None

Abilities: Tentacle Grip, Smoke

Tentacle Grip: Lashes out with a tentacle whip-like weapon from 6 tiles that will grab a hero and stun them. If the Grappler receives 50% HP damage or is killed, the stun is released and the hero can act again. If this doesn't happen, then the next turn the grabbed hero will be dragged to the Grapplers position and re-stunned.

Smoke: When damaged or killed, the Grappler will release a temporary cloud of smoke over 3 tiles around him, increasing Dodge chances for any unit inside of it by 20%. This smoke does not function like the Mist, so it won't impair vision or block attacks. (Mainly its there to give a reason for why everything around the Grappler gets an Evasion boost, too).

Special Elite Variety: Smoke effect is permanent upon spawning and increases Dodge by 30% instead of 20%. +1 tile range for Tentacle Grip. Bonus HP.

Name: Absorber

• HP: High
  
• Armor: Very Low
  
• Speed: Average
  
• Block: None

Abilities: Ability Rod, Reversal

Ability Rod: When adjacent to other units that are damaged by an AOE or propragation attack, all damage will be reflected to the Absorber instead of the other units. This damage can "Overflow", even if it deals more than the Absorbers' HP, it will still be redirected entirely.

Reversal: If the Absorber survives an attack, the next turn they will release all damage taken into an 2-tile heal for them and anything nearby.

Special Elite Variety: Reversal can over-heal if possible, boosting max HP. Bonus Block.

Name: Siege

• HP: Medium
  
• Armor: Medium
  
• Speed: Very Low
  
• Block: None

Abilities: Catapult, Detonation

Catapult: The Siege will lock onto a building, wall, tower or defense with 10 range. The next turn it'll fire, dealing very heavy damage to whatever is targeted, and some splash damage to anything adjacent.

Detonation: When killed, the Siege will collapse and deal damage to anything adjacent to it, like the Boomer enemy.

Special Elite Variety: +2 Range on attacks and lights buildings damaged on fire, which burn each turn unless doused by a Hero using 2 AP next to the building. Bonus HP.

Name: Spawner

• HP: Average
  
• Armor: Low
  
• Speed: High
  
• Block: Some

Abilities: Spawn, Spew

Spawn: Every turn while alive, the Spawner move and then create several smaller worm-like enemies. These enemies behave like slightly weaker Crawlers.

Spew: The Spawner attacks with a range of 3 tiles, doing double damage to armor and reducing it by 50 for two turns. Damages HP if it goes through all of the armor.

Special Elite Variety: Spawn that are created have much higher stats. The Spawner loses all movement speed and cannot leave its starting position. Bonus HP and Armor.

Name: Channeler

• HP: Medium
  
• Armor: Medium
  
• Speed: Low
  
• Block: Medium

Abilities: Channel, Renew

Channel: When a Hero ends their turn within 8 tiles of the Channeler, they suffer 5% HP damage each turn. When within 4 tiles they suffer 10%.

Renew: Any damage dealt from the Channel ability will increase the Max HP of the Channeler and heal that amount to all monsters in its radius.

Special Elite Variety: Channel strips 1 AP and 2 Movement Points from heroes as well as HP and Renew can "Overheal" to increase max HP. Bonus HP.

[Bumc]

I get that you went for L4D smoker vibes in Grappler suggestion, but having smoke on top of mist as a separate entity will plummet the visual clarity.
If you want an on-damage evasion boost, just make it a (non-stacking) buff.

Also, Absorber as written will interact with propagations/aoes in a counter-intuitive way, absorbing damage, but ignoring special effects.
Its fine balance-wise, but will look weird.

[Terran]

Originally posted by Bumc:

I get that you went for L4D smoker vibes in Grappler suggestion, but having smoke on top of mist as a separate entity will plummet the visual clarity.
If you want an on-damage evasion boost, just make it a (non-stacking) buff.

Also, Absorber as written will interact with propagations/aoes in a counter-intuitive way, absorbing damage, but ignoring special effects.
Its fine balance-wise, but will look weird.

Yeah, its basically the Smoker from L4D. You're right about just an on damage boost, but I didn't mean the smoke should block people from shooting or seeing through - I just described it that way so that it would affect units around the smoker too. So basically an AOE on-damage evasion boost (and non stacking. I shouldn't mentioned that!)

Absorber was kinda out there so yeah I can agree. I just wanted an enemy that would punish players lobbing propragations into giant crowds without thinking. Usually I have one character with a druid staff hold off an entire side, but if he suddenly had to kill an Absorber before being able to punish dense groups I figured he'd be in trouble.
I should have implied he'd still be hit by special effects and stuff. Or, like, let's say someone slaps the druid propragation upon a group of enemies, but the chain reaches an Absorber. All of the damage and poison goes to him, redirected.
Should I write that up to be changed in a way?

[CanuckBear]

@Terran, what tactical improvements are you trying to achieve?

In general I think a good game design means minimizing complexity while maximizing tactical choices.

I feel like the 4 enemies you described require a bit of extra attention from the player, they are special elite enemies, they break down the regular flow of battles, which is good in general, but the added complexity is quite high.

Also, this game feels to be more about volume, or high enemy count. The enemy updates addressed this a bit with the elites being a bit special, but the complexity was not increased, they are versions of the current enemies.

The design direction of your 4 enemies is interesting, the game would play more like chess, therefore it would be a completely different game from a design point of view, the amount of enemies would have to be reduced.

[Terran]

Originally posted by CanuckBear:

@Terran, what tactical improvements are you trying to achieve?

In general I think a good game design means minimizing complexity while maximizing tactical choices.

I feel like the 4 enemies you described require a bit of extra attention from the player, they are special elite enemies, they break down the regular flow of battles, which is good in general, but the added complexity is quite high.

Also, this game feels to be more about volume, or high enemy count. The enemy updates addressed this a bit with the elites being a bit special, but the complexity was not increased, they are versions of the current enemies.

The design direction of your 4 enemies is interesting, the game would play more like chess, therefore it would be a completely different game from a design point of view, the amount of enemies would have to be reduced.

I figured that extra attention from the player was the goal. When I saw the new gunner ranged unit and the blocker, I always make those my priorities. I felt like some archtypes for characters are really strong.

I.E I usually protect one entire side with a mage with a Druid Staff. I don't think the staff is overpowered, but the AOE has no real downsides since on Apoc 2+ enemies are so bunched together you always hit many with the propragation effects. Now, let's say only the Druid is on a side, but there's a few Absorbers in the wave. Instead of simply blasting them with poison (Dual druid staff is usually what I do, +1 AP from something and you have 4 casts there), they'd have to target down the Absorber. But without the extended range of an alternate weapon or perhaps an archer, they might have trouble reaching it, meaning another hero might have to come help or they adapt.

You make a good point though, and I agree actually. These are all a bit outlandish. I sort of felt like the game was more or less just a "AOE the hordes" simulator - Elite enemies changed that somewhat, but I like the idea of having to manage more difficult situations that could arise from enemies that warrant attention.

You are right about the game being more about fending off the hordes, which is usually why I do 3 mages, 2 ranged and 1 melee if possible, or just 3 mages 3 rangers. Mages have Druid staffs, rangers have Longbows and usually something different each (Crossbow, handgun, shortbow) and so far I've beaten Apoc 2 on Lakeside pretty easily. I find that AOE crowd control (Especially with poison or the spellbooks lightning ability) held a ton.

Not saying that melee is bad, it is very useful and I'm sure its even more useful on Glenwald, but I know I would panic if I only had a double-druid staff mage holding off one side and suddenly he has to deal with a siege/smoker/absorber.

...Sorry that was a lot of text. I wonder how these units could be placed in the general gameplay. I just was sitting up one night and thought these up and figured I'd type something up and post it in the morning. I don't think they're the most excellent ideas, haha. Just something.

[CanuckBear]

Originally posted by Terran:

...Sorry that was a lot of text. I wonder how these units could be placed in the general gameplay. I just was sitting up one night and thought these up and figured I'd type something up and post it in the morning. I don't think they're the most excellent ideas, haha. Just something.

It's important and fun when you play something and come up with ideas. That is how games get better, or new games get invented. Who knows, if there will ever be a TLS 2, it will have more complex enemies.

[Bumc]

My main gripe about enemies that demand extra attention is that currently you can have 6 heroes max that hold 4 sides. So anything that you plan on using 2+ heroes on will invalidate the ability of one hero to hold the weaker sides.
Granted, most of presented designs still die to a solo ranger without much of a impact if played the cards right and Channeler/Grappler mostly counter melee.

[Terran]

Originally posted by Bumc:

My main gripe about enemies that demand extra attention is that currently you can have 6 heroes max that hold 4 sides. So anything that you plan on using 2+ heroes on will invalidate the ability of one hero to hold the weaker sides.
Granted, most of presented designs still die to a solo ranger without much of a impact if played the cards right and Channeler/Grappler mostly counter melee.

Yeah. I usually run 1 hero on 3 sides, then 3 heroes in corners who cover all sides. The "uncovered" side is whatever wave is weakest, usually a corner can take care of it. Hence why I usually use archers and mages - A longbow with some skill range bonuses can easily cover most of two sides. But then again, I can't just force *my* play style onto an idea, that's just silly. I do feel like some weapons are night-and-day differences in quality overall, but, that's a discussion for another time...

Originally posted by CanuckBear:

It's important and fun when you play something and come up with ideas. That is how games get better, or new games get invented. Who knows, if there will ever be a TLS 2, it will have more complex enemies.

Possibly! I hope its a long ways away and this one gets a lot of updates though. Thanks for the responses :)