Potion/Scrolls useless?

[Shmebulock]

Maybe i am not far enough advanced in the game now (Apo 4), but i feel like i rarely use potions and the scrolls i never use. Feels like they are a waste of money that is sparse early game anyways. Scrolls take up AP and a lot of mana and are also used up. Would be better if the scrolls would be some stuff that is not a weapon skill like creating a dummy with taunt or creating a clone, whatever. Either that, or remove the mana cost/ap cost. Same goes for the passive Skillz that boost Potions or Scrolls, throwing the potion seems like the most useless skill there is, most of the time i use the potions before the round starts to fill up mana or hp, rarely buy the other buff potions.

What are are your thoughts on the usable items, is there some merit to them that i am not seeing? How could they be improved?

[BlackjackGT]

The mana/health potions are better than nothing but admittedly are very stingy. :p

I'd be nice if tainted essence and the other unlock thing (I can't ever remember the unlock system names) at some point buffed up the potions a bit so they were more useful (make them cost more if that keeps the game balanced).

Despite lots of good advice here, I'm stuck. I can't get past the Night 7. I mean, I think I'm pretty good at the turn-based combat part but no matter how I build - no matter how many Scavengers, Mines, Houses, etc. --, I just can't ever seem to make enough materials or gold to upgrade to all stone walls or get ballistas and what not, mainly because I'm too busy having to build completely destroyed walls from scratch by that point of the game.

I don't want to resort to easy mode, but I don't think I'll ever progress past Night 7 otherwise. I just don't understand whatever building-city economic voodoo the better players pull off. And it would help if the potions actually did more than just make your HP or mana meter "blip" imperceptibly. :D

[Zaphkiel]

I believe the game need some sort of Alchemist building that can produce potions or scrolls the way the other crafting buildings work. That would surely make them viable.

[Shmebulock]

Originally posted by BlackjackGT:

The mana/health potions are better than nothing but admittedly are very stingy. :p

I'd be nice if tainted essence and the other unlock thing (I can't ever remember the unlock system names) at some point buffed up the potions a bit so they were more useful (make them cost more if that keeps the game balanced).

Despite lots of good advice here, I'm stuck. I can't get past the Night 7. I mean, I think I'm pretty good at the turn-based combat part but no matter how I build - no matter how many Scavengers, Mines, Houses, etc. --, I just can't ever seem to make enough materials or gold to upgrade to all stone walls or get ballistas and what not, mainly because I'm too busy having to build completely destroyed walls from scratch by that point of the game.

I don't want to resort to easy mode, but I don't think I'll ever progress past Night 7 otherwise. I just don't understand whatever building-city economic voodoo the better players pull off. And it would help if the potions actually did more than just make your HP or mana meter "blip" imperceptibly. :D

felt like the game is pretty luck reliant in the first trys especially if you reach the later nights and are not decked out in passive perks. Cause starting weapons play a huge role cause many of the melee weapons (sword, axe and dagger) or range weapons like the rifle or even the long bow are pretty bad in clearing multiple enemies which means if you got waves from multiple directions you always have to have a second hero there.
Also depends on the directions, if they swtich up every round its bad to defend it cause you can only reinforce a few walls early on. in the first waves i wouldnt build to much in terms of walls, maybe just close up some holes, so the runners just dont run through and you have to play catch up.

pretty essential is getting the upgraded havens (more walls, or the gold/material to start with, helps a lot in getting goldmines going and upgraded so you will be able to build enough houses and by the 4-5 night have the tavern ready and the seer, the seer is pretty essential to progress. Cause pushing back the fog will give you more time to react and attack more enemies early on, also enable you to plan the hero distrubution, cause if you see that on direction has only one skull in terms of strength, its enough to put a sledgehammer/spear melee or short bow dude or tome mage there, with a couple of ballistas he should be able to handle it by himself. Would be careful with single melee heroes though, if you got a stunner in the wave, it will be disaster cause losing a whole round can make you lose the run.

Just in general it all builds on each other, if you manage to avoid panic, you will get more items and gold/material, enabling you to build more stuff making you handle the next wave better. should also steadily trying to build workshops later so you can get item upgrades that you need for later waves. Would maybe always build a bowery or magic shop first, cause i feel like they provide more useful items. I would only fill up holes with the weakest walls at first and instead get ballistas (100 material ones) currently i use no stone walls and rather rely on intercepting the enemies before the reach the walls or let the ballista handle flankers like the bats or dogs

on topic: you using tainted essence or passive buff after using a certain amount might be a good idea

[Faust]

I managed to complete game once. Only time when I actually needed potions - were last few days. Otherwise most of them are waste of money. Only exception - some situations where you for some reason can't recharge HP or Mana between days - so they are last ditch option.

[mikusama]

The scrolls cost less action points. In my final battle i spammed death rays because the scrolls only cost 1 AP. That's huge.

[SquareDildo]

HP and Mana potions are only needed if you can't plan. HP/Mana regenerating perks and buildings are more money efficient.

Maybe the problem is attacks are too predictable? Potions let you improvise and prepare for the unexpected.

[BlackjackGT]

Although I still can't get past Night 7 - doesn't matter if I spam Gold Mines, or Seer, or Inn, or pile up materials, I can't even reach Night 7 in good enough shape to survive it - I am now paying closer attention to how much mana the fancy AOE hero attacks consume.

I think I 'waste' those type attacks much too early, and when I don't need to -- like if something can attack 9 tiles, why am I wasting it on 3 enemies? -- and then inevitably late in the Night battle, all my heroes are out of mana, and I'm screwed. Well, I'm screwed anyway since the walls are gone and the city's in flames, but I think if am smarter managing use of the highest mana consumption attacks earlier, maybe it'll be less bad. :)

[oliver.bengtsson]

Originally posted by BlackjackGT:

Although I still can't get past Night 7 - doesn't matter if I spam Gold Mines, or Seer, or Inn, or pile up materials, I can't even reach Night 7 in good enough shape to survive it - I am now paying closer attention to how much mana the fancy AOE hero attacks consume.

I think I 'waste' those type attacks much too early, and when I don't need to -- like if something can attack 9 tiles, why am I wasting it on 3 enemies? -- and then inevitably late in the Night battle, all my heroes are out of mana, and I'm screwed. Well, I'm screwed anyway since the walls are gone and the city's in flames, but I think if am smarter managing use of the highest mana consumption attacks earlier, maybe it'll be less bad. :)

My method for building gold is:
Night 1:
Build a gold mine, upgrade Prod 1 and Mine 1 and mine in it.
Scavenge a well for gold, and build the second mine, which you work in.
Night 2:
Upgrade second mine with Prod 1 and Mine 1, work in the mines. Upgrade to Prod 2 in both mines.
Night 3:
Prod 3 in both mines.

From there, I will build houses and Seer, and production buildings. Try to get one production building up to highest Prod level, then Worker, and you get 7 level 4-5 gear for 4 workers. Upgrade the shop so you can sell at better prices, and you will outperform gold mining with gear selling, and get high level equipment in the process!

I destroy rather then scavenge the ruins, so they don't raise panic when attacked in early levels or block LoS.

I also don't buy anything with materials first levels, first time the wave splits, I put a hero and ballistaes on 1 side. Production buildings are more important to build and upgrade then scavenger camps, although I get them as well, but seldom works in them. Remember, the infected can't destroy the walls if you kill them before they reach them.
Also, upgraded ballistae is so much more effective then unupgraded for spreading out the damage so they don't all overkills one target.

EDIT: As for the topic, only buys potions if buying gear changes health, I have lost Confidence perk, and I don't have a Shrine available. Literally never used a scroll.

[Waschbär42]

I didn't use the consumables much, either.

I think they are more tailored towards early levels, before your heroes start with higher mana and mana reg.

Also I feel like they are a way to rather use money than level ups to keep up mana in some edge cases. Like once I got a hero who actually got almost only desired level ups (+dmg, +ap, +multi etc) and therefore run low on mana in the later nights. The other heroes didnt need the mana well so I bought mana potions for said hero (which in the end was more expensive than the mana well with upgrades would have been, btw^^)

[Faust]

Usually my tactic that carry me for quite long. First few nights - I max out two gold mines. Usually fighter and mage (mostly going full poison) go for front lines, while sharpshooter with gun or long bow sits in the tower between fronts and supports stuff depending on situation. I only build mana building on third night. Then as soon as gold flow maxed from two mines - I switch to maximum heroes.

[Vambran]

Early game they are just too expensive. You will handicap your base trying to give everybody potions / scrolls. Late game you forget all about them as your characters become stronger.

[mjkittredge]

Some of the attack scrolls can give you extra versatility that your current weapons do not have.

[Faust]

Originally posted by mjkittredge:

Some of the attack scrolls can give you extra versatility that your current weapons do not have.

I consider scrolls more like oh ♥♥♥♥ button, rather than general purpose tools.

[cråck]

the speed potion and/or the action potions are very much usefull and i do usually buy them when i see it
but it's also due to the fact i am mostly playing full melle comp
i supose playing with multiple range dudes you wont use any potions at all

the scrolls on the other hand are way too much expensive money wise, and once you can afford them you simply forget use it
but overall they can be very mush usefull as they are using 1ap for a 2ap Spell

[Lonetac]

never used them. Dont plan on it, gold is better spent elsewhere imho.