Weapon balance feedback

[Grobatof]

The accessible and inviting team of The Last Spell developpers seems eager to get some feedback on their (great) game. There's been quite a bit of discord activity, but that medium doesn't feel suited for a longer discussion upon a specific theme.

That's what this thread is for : sharing how good or bad you felt the weapons were during your experience of the game demo, and why.

You could have done that already, anonymously or not during the summer fest survey the CCCP built up. But retrospectively, you may have matured your opinion since then. Also this survey wasn't quite interactive, so getting people to answer your opinion could build a more solid point of yours, or nuance it to a better shape. I mean, that's what discussing is for, right ?
Also, please mind that this thread is NOT about weapon-related features you'd like to see in the game, as interesting as it could be. Please open a new thread if you want to deeply discuss and share that.

I wanted to start this sooner but, call me lazy, I didn't know where to start. Hopefully Megafonz shared an exhaustive and insightful memo on his thoughts of the game, with a special care on weapons. I thought this could be a good start, so here the part on the current weapon balance :

"

Weapon Swapping

I'll preface this by saying that I never equipped a secondary weapon on any of my characters throughout the duration of my playtime (7+ playthroughs of the demo).
While initially this decision was due to being a bit overwhelmed by all the choices/options/mechanics to the game, another large portion of it was caused by being dirt poor right at the beginning of a run. Any gold I was earning from surviving the night or from scavenging in town was immediately put towards building new locations (inn healing temple mana fountain).
Any leftover gold I had at the end of a town development/hero rest-time management phase was spent on consumables like mana potions or spell scrolls, so that I could spam existing abilities more or give a hero a more well-rounded kit with some long-range spell scrolls. This behavior to not pursue secondary weapons was further reinforced when leveling up characters and seeing that a perk exists to boost all damage by 20% if the secondary weapon slots remain empty.
I haven't tested thoroughly enough to know if certain perks stack, but am not really seeing a "versatility" benefit to having a secondary weapon set to swap to when:
- The cost of a second weapon (that you may not even use more than once or twice a night over your primary weapon) is relatively steep when first starting out, especially when that gold could be better spent towards other gear (helmet, boots, trinket, etc) that provide a permanent/active benefit to your character.
- The perk investment cost is rather large if you're having to snag the 10% bonus damage "weapon specialist" trait for multiple weapon types, instead of locking in a character to a specific weapon (like bows) and getting 30% boosted damage from the 10% weapon specialization and 20% "no secondary weapons" perk.
- Even though weapon swapping in-game is a free action, movement/action economy just doesn't seem to support the need to interchangeably use 2 different weapon sets. Most of the really good AoE/high damage skills cost 3 action-points to use. This makes it almost impossible to afford dealing high damage with one weapon, then swapping over to a second weapon and using any sort of skill that is going to out-perform the 1-2 cost "cleanup" single-target skills that already exist on your current weapon.

[...]

Weapon Balancing

Based on all the feedback seen in the discord channel and on the Steam community page, weapon balancing is in need of some serious attention. From my own gameplay experience, I have tried multiple melee weapons in a variety of different ways, and just can't get any of them to be viable. The closest I got was with the one-handed axe (the sweeping 1-action hit is okay, and the 2-action/1-mana 3-hit cleave with armor rending is actually pretty good), but even that was mediocre when compared to a wand, short-bow, tome, or crossbow. Here are my thoughts on the current state of the weapons:
1-handed sword – interesting concept, but needs work. With everything being a mobility skill, you pretty much have to pair it with another 1-handed weapon that will let you stay still and attack from your current position – otherwise it’s extremely easy to isolate a Hero by constantly attacking with the dash attacks and running out of movement/action points. I’m very surprised there is no targeted multi-hit or parrying skill with a weapon that normally carries a reputation for finesse.
1-handed axe – seems to be the best offering for the melee weapons to me. Sweeping 1-action cost skill that can hit multiple targets. Multi-hit 2-action/1-mana cost skill that allows you to select multiple targets (even on diagonal spaces) and has high effectiveness against armor. With relatively low-cost skills, outfitting any decently mobile character (8+ move) allows an axe user to get in, toss around a bunch of cleanup damage on a variety of enemies, and retreat back towards the wall of the town. Damage is really lacking though, so you often have to 2-hit the easiest monsters, with 3+ hits being needed for tougher enemies.
2-handed axe – Feels like it has an idea of what it wants to be, but doesn’t really combine its skills effectively. There is a big AoE whirlwind attack that deals good damage, but costs a ton of action points to use. You have to walk deep into the lineup of enemy monsters to get the most out of the skill. You have a mobility attack skill that lets you leap a few tiles away, but it gets easily obstructed if there is something already on the tile you want to move to. The lowest cost skill does a massive 5-tile sweep attack, but you are rarely getting the full potential of this attack and hitting 5 targets each time. There just doesn’t seem to be anything the 2-handed axe user is particularly good at.
1-handed hammer – Honestly haven’t used this enough to give a solid opinion. The damage from the 1-action skill seems heavier than most of the melee weapons, so that’s good. I didn’t see if it has any bonuses to hitting the armored enemies, but it definitely feels like it should. The slam/AoE attack has an interesting attack pattern.
2-handed hammer – Frustrating to use. The slam/propagating attack felt nice, but the other skills just weren’t damaging enough to justify the action/mana cost. The mobility penalty is cumbersome too. I get that it’s a big/heavy weapon, but limiting one of my starting heroes to something like 5 move spaces is crazy, when it takes 2-3 moves just to get into position to even use the hammer attacks. Similar to what has been said elsewhere, nothing about this weapon makes it stand out or make it more desirable than something else. Why not have a “power slam” attack that hits in a cone, shoves all the monsters back a space AND stuns them? What about a “swing for the fences” baseball bat attack for 2-action points that lets you hit an enemy right in front of you and knock them back up to 3 spaces (with full damage application on another enemy if your knock-back makes them hit another monster)?
2-handed spear – Frustrating to use. It was the first melee weapon I got the chance to use that could hit multiple enemies, but the attack patterns don’t seem to do it any favors. I have no idea why a weapon with reach cannot attack diagonal tiles immediately next to your hero. You can only attack on the cardinal direction spaces. The tri-attack had limited application, requires you to walk up point-blank to an enemy to get the most out of the damage cone, and similarly didn’t feel very powerful when you are only killing maybe half the mobs in your attack pattern (having to leave the job of cleaning up to someone else).

[Grobatof]

Tome – completely overpowered. Giving a tome to a magic-based hero and investing the first couple levels into accuracy (to boost the likelihood of the propagation effects) is insane. For a 3-action/3-mana cost skill, you’re throwing out several hundred points of damage with the lightning attack across 6-10 targets on average. Similarly, the 1-action cost dark-pulse skill (with just a slightly boosted magic damage stat) can one-shot any of the lowest level zombie monsters that are standing on any space in your line of site (up to 10 spaces away!). I was having a tough time on my first 2 playthroughs, until I had a stroke of luck and one of my starting heroes on the 3rd attempt got a green tome. I absolutely destroyed the first 2 survival nights, bought a basic tome in the shop for a brand new hero that I recruited at the inn (after immediately selling their other weapon), then proceeded to decimate the rest of the demo without taking more than a hit or two on any of my characters.
1-handed wand – seems like the younger sibling of the tome. Amazing range, crazy targeting flexibility with super low-cost skills, and more damage output potential than any of the 1-handed melee weapons. The 1-action basic skill of the wand feels like a copy of the tome skill – with slightly different damage ranges. The 2-action/1-mana cost skill is probably one of the best attacks in the game, as you can freely target 4 different enemies anywhere within your line of site and do about equal damage per-hit as what the 1-action basic skill does. This is likely the most efficient/targetable/reliable damaging weapon in the game. I gave my wand user an amulet that increased the action resource pool by 1, at the cost of some mobility. What I got in return was a precision distance-striker that could spend 7-action\3-mana per turn to deal a total of 13 hits to any enemy that I could see within 10 spaces – for probably ~60-70 damage per hit. Might as well have nicknamed my hero “The Garbage Man” for how much cleanup they were doing.
2-handed wand/staff – Not very nice to use. Severely limited range of attack, and doesn’t have very powerful area of effect skills (immediately outclassed by the Tome). The single-target basic attack is too expensive for only hurting one enemy (too weak to outright kill anything other than the easiest monster). My basic punch was more reliable/versatile for damage that this was. Why not give this weapon some crazy expensive/powerful attacks? A meteor attack for 5-action/4-mana might be worth using if it gets the same damage potential as the catapult attack. The single-target skill needs to be reworked so that its cost is 1-action and it can hit enemies as far away as the wand/tome.
2-handed nature staff – Felt very situational to use. I was able to combo with this thing fairly well when I used the bee/poisoning AoE to damage and put a DoT on enemies. Other characters taking the “Deal 25% more damage to poisoned enemies” could really deliver some damage effectively/efficiently. The acid spray feels way too situational in that it only really does something if you’re using it against armored enemies. Seems way to inefficient to waste a turn stripping off enemy armor, when quite a few other attacks in the game (2-handed crossbow basic attack or 1-handed pistol basic attack) can 2-shot armored enemies anyways.
1-handed pistol – Felt okay, but wasn’t very inspiring to use. I ended up making my pistol user the armored enemy hunter, because I could 2-shot any of the beefier guys that start coming out in the 2nd round of monsters with my basic attack (that armor-rending 1st level perk is awesome). Grape-shot was a bit too costly – both in terms of action/mana and the fact that I had to walk right up to a group of enemies. I left me out of position and exposed by the end of my turn, as it usually took 3-4 movement to get anywhere close to a group of monsters, then only leave me 2-3 moves to retreat with. The only way I could salvage this, was by having that teleport stone/crystal in my off-hand, so that I could spend 1-action/3-mana to teleport away from the mess I kept having to walk into. Way too high of an investment to get off a single grape-shot, that didn’t do enough damage to reliably kill enemies in a single blast. I’m honestly bothered by the pistol being locked into the straight-line attack pattern. It’s a lightweight/single-handed weapon that should can be waved around without any issues by a normal person. Give it free range for targeting (like the 2-handed bow, wand, or tome) and limit it to an effective range of 2-7 or something. That would make the 1-action armor-shredding single shot WAY more attractive to use.
2-handed rifle – I only used this for maybe 2 rounds on one of my playthoughs before dying, but it felt similar to the 2-handed axe quite a bit. There was an idea of design/direction, but it just doesn’t feel like it went over very well. The single-target basic action felt outclassed by the 2-handed crossbow. Why a rifle doesn’t have something crazy like 12 range and double the damage of an arrow/bolt is beyond me. The weapon didn’t really have any area of attack skill that could damage multiple enemies consistently or in a desirable damage pattern – whereas the crossbow had a pretty nice piercing bolt attack that frequently was situationally better to attack with). I will fully admit that I need to test this weapon out further and play with the bastion/tower reinforcement building, because this might be an entirely different story if you can make your rifleman stationary, have zero line-of-sight penalties, and free range to spend all your actions/mana/move points to snipe enemies from a defensive position.
1-handed crossbow – Interesting to use, if a little lack-luster. The lowest cost skill is good for splitting ranged attacks between a couple targets – but none of the attacks feel very powerful and the range isn’t as good as a tome or wand user. The fire attack is okay, but doesn’t seem to have a good enough damage-to-cost ratio that would make it a frequent skill that I use often. Overall, this weapon just doesn’t feel like it has a niche it’s filling and it gets outclassed by other ranged weapons.
2-handed crossbow – Heavy artillery incoming! This weapon definitely feels like it was given special attention during its design phase. It feels unique, hits like a truck, and is devastating if you pay attention to your positioning. I had my crossbow hero act like a Rook from the game of Chess. He hugged the town wall constantly, and used his solid mobility to move to the left/right and get himself directly in front of a row of monsters. I could cut down weak monsters 4 at a time with the piercing bolt attack, 2-shot any armored target with the 1-cost basic attack, or land a deep-impact shot into the back lines of the enemy with the explosive bolt. I used this hero as my bloat-bag killer in the late stages of the demo, because he could pretty much single-handedly take them out with half his action points and put some damage into whatever weakened enemies took friendly-fire when the boomer exploded. There were no skills called “assassinate” or “boom headshot”, but it certainly felt like that was the case when this hero would land devastating amounts of damage with each type of attack.
2-handed short-bow – Felt very similar to the wand or tome, as the 1-action cost skill had a huge targeting range, good damage, and was perfect for cleaning up separated mobs that were trying to flank heroes or work their way into town. I think I lucked out and had this bow on my hero that naturally had high accuracy, because it was the only reliable weapon I could use to cut down those demon dog things that spawn in the late stages of the game that have crazy high dodge chance (40% or something?).
2-handed longbow – honestly haven’t used it much, and need to test further.
Off-hand Misc Items – I don’t have too much experience with these guys, as I only got exposure to a single orb/focus type item on my very last playthrough at the time of this writing. It seems like a fantastic concept, and would really play well with all the other items I talked about in the “Weapon Swapping” feedback section. Having a flaming/poison/frost orb that supplements the damage of your weapon is awesome. Having a stat-stick that gives your character bonus phys/mag/crit/regen is awesome. Having a “hex wand” that allows you to slow/stun/debuff enemies would be awesome for a support character to use. Having a “holy wand” that allows you to heal/buff friendly heroes or use a smite attack on an enemy would be useful.
"

[Grobatof]

That's a lot of material, I would react to a few of those points, starting by the fact I agree with almost everything written above.
Related to Range VS Melee weapon, the current game mechanics feel titlted toward the Range for a few reasons :
1) Melee is generally more restrictive in regards to the targets you get to pick, without an advantage, particularly in damage, that feels significative enough to balance out.
2) Optimizing your damages means picking the right targets, which is to say the right position. With a melee character you need more mobility than rangers to get value out of your attacks without exposing yourself completly, but a few melee weapons actually lowers your movepoints.
3) A melee character is a lot more exposed, obviously. This is even truer in The Last Spell because as you play closer to the Mist, you can't predict which positions are safe from the wave coming out of It. You could play safe and far from the Mist, but that means less movepoints to get on the right positions for your counterattack. You could equip Heavy armors to soak up damage, sadly the best stuff for protection also vampirize your MP pool.
4) Melee weapons do Physical damage, which is a little worst than Magic damage in the demo.

Weapon by weapon :

2-handed Axe For 2AP s, it is not necessary to hit 5 targets to get enough value out of the cleave. 4 is enough, 3 is arguably ok, especially if you get some armor shredding in the process. The Whirlwind attack definitely feels 1AP too high of a cost to me as well. Also, the amount of damage is right under the OneShot on squishies, unless your lucky enough to pump up damage heavily.

2-handed Hammer Agree with you, plus the -2Move is a killer malus. The cross slam is 3AP/3manas for 5 targets at best. Way too expensive.

2-handed spear You don't need to pump up the damage a lot to OneShot the squishies with the triple strike. It does clean nicely. The -1Move is kind of antisynergic with a deep need in positionning though. Not a very versatile weapon though, because it has low value attacks as soon as the mob is scarce.

Tome Exactly. Plus you have a perk that gives +25% Accuracy when the charachter doesn't move (another detail that tilts game mechanics toward rangers).

1-handed crossbow Maybe the only part I disagree with MegaF0nz. It is as great as the Wand is. The 1AP 2xMultihit is extremely versatile and does the clean up job almost as well as Magic Missile from the wand does, without the magic damage advantage, and the no-LoS advantage. However, it has armor shred to turn what is already a good tactical option into an excellent addition to your arsenal. Also the versatility of the weapon shines again with the nice magical propagation attack. That's 3 big arguments to make the 1hand crossbow a top tier weapon.

2-handed longbow Another top tier weapon. Best range in the game. The LoS problem can easily be solved with a watchtower. The 1AP base attack is already good, but the killer skill is a 1AP/1mana/2move cost attack that does tremendous damage with the No-Dodge special. 2 snipes is 2AP/2mana/4move feel better than the rifle "assassinate", less versatile due to range and overkill potential, for 3AP/2mana/1move. The minimum range malus of the weapon is not a big deal.

1hand Orb The main attack does a big poison AoE, and poison isn't really as good as high damage currectly. The laser attack does hurt massively, but is a bit situational compared to propagation attacks.

[Fendelphi]

A few observations of my own, based on my own experience and expectation of a longer gaming experience(ie, more than 5 days/nights).

Item shops that you build can greatly increase your characters efficiency. Not only do they increase the options of available items(for free/AP), but can also be sold for a decent amount of gold once you have a surplus.

I rarely equip an additional weapon set as well, but I can see the potential for this, once the game progresses further. Having the action being free allows more "fun" in terms of being creative.
For instance, a sword in the second slot, combined with a decent mana pool, crit-to-mana perk and a focus trinket(converts mana to AP) will allow you move around a lot(without using movement points) and then generate mana through a high crit rate and AoE attacks(like the Great Axe).

The swords. Yeah, they are kind of weird, but I like that about them. At first glance they dont have the same damage output as other weapons, but they are cheap in terms of mana and AP and provides mobility. As mentioned above, combine them with a focus trinket and high crit rate + crit-to-mana perk and you can keep on going. Get some Swift Boots and you can use your movement points to pump Dodge, allowing to tank damage as well.
Once the game introduces even more attack directions, this kind of mobility(or at least the option for it) will probably see some use.

Axes are great. The 1-handed is a well balanced mix of minor AoE(for 1 AP) and either single target burst(3 attacks hitting the same enemy) or spreading the damage. Very efficient vs armored enemies.
2-Handed has a lot of AoE and some mobility. It is a lot of fun when 1 of your other characters snipe a target in the middle of the horde and then have your 2-handed Axe fighter jump into the open spot(AoE damage), Whirlwind, then walk out after 8 or more enemies have died.

Hammer time! Again, both options are great. 1-handed is a decent defensive option, with good single target damage and some AoE damage and stun. 2-handed has both great single target and AoE damage, with a bit of range on the attacks(making it a decent weapon for low movement characters). My first completion of the demo(I think it was my third run) had two 2-handed hammer guys. The combination of AoE clear, high single target damage(from a slight range) and Stuns makes it very efficient in my opinion.

Spear is ok, especially on moderate movement characters. Good range on most attacks(for a melee weapon) and it has an ability(with range) that allows you to ignore armor and target health directly(costing 2 AP and 1 mana). It's third ability is quite powerful, with a decent AoE, high damage attack.

Tome is powerful. And I love it. It often makes your character squishie(once had -50% reduced resistance modifier on one), but it deals a lot of damage. I wonder if their lack of control effects eventually will make them less efficient in the full game(once hordes have enough armor and health to not get 1-shot).
A nerf(if needed) could be to give the basic attack a slight AoE(about 30-40% of the main hit) in a cross pattern, but increase the cost to 2 AP. This way, it will be harder to use on enemies that have engaged your other characters and you will have fewer attacks per round overall.

Wand is cool for clean up, as it can make several weak attacks for a fairly cheap cost. All those zombies with 1-50 HP that are spread out after your AoE bombardments needs to be finished off. Wish the 1 AP option had some kind of special effect though(like no dodge or no block).

The Power staff is basically a magic version of the 2-handed Hammer. It deals a lot of short range AoE damage and can either be fairly efficient in mana or deal a lot of damage. The debuff of it's basic ability has interesting effects when combined with high block or armor, allowing you to tank a lot of damage. Would be better if all it's attacks applied the debuff, although that could be an issue in case of friendly fire.

Druidic staff has a lot of potential once the game is released. Poison effects in general needs some kind of buff in my opinion, but maybe that changes once you start using a lot of characters with the perk that allows them to deal +25% damage to poisoned targets. Not a lot of damage by itself, but a lot of potential synergy with other characters. I can imagine the Armor debuff could be deadly at higher tier play, as it allows allies to continue dealing damage over several turns against hordes of armored/dodging enemies.

Pistols seems like a strong AoE skirmishing weapon. Combined with a shield, you can deal a lot of AoE(like a hammer and shield) and absorb the return attacks like a tank, but also has the ability to deal damage at range. Good on high movement characters.

Rifles are single target killers. I can see them having value in later stages of the game. Can be quite powerful in towers


1-handed crossbows are flexible. Decent range, cheap basic attack that is efficent at finishing off enemies or dealing with armored targets. The secondary attack is magical(so effective against high resistance enemies), can target 3 different enemies and on top of that, it can propagate. Very mana efficient. Can be used together with an off-hand weapon or a shield.

2-handed crossbows can ignore Block(flat damage reduction), not armor. Cheap, single target damage(since the basic attack is 1 AP, deals high damage and ignores block), while also having access to decent AoE abilies(line or cluster). Good on high movement characters.

Shortbow feels slightly lackluster, but might be more potent in the full game due to the slowing and anti-dodge attacks. The basic attack has ok damage and cant be dodged, making it perfect for finishing off those pesky hounds. The AoE slow deals little damage and costs too much AP(3). The slowing effect might end up being more important later in the game though.
Rain of Arrows is fine. Decent damage, tactical AoE(can be used with allies engaging enemies) and no dodge.

Longbow is pretty good. Long range, decent single target damage, AoE control and damage, and can spend movement to deal even higher single target damage(with no dodge). Good for a stationary build(Tower). In my opinion, a much better choice than short bow.

Scepter is the magical version of the hammer, but with more focus on AoE and less single target damage. A bit more flexible in terms of range though.

Daggers need a buff. Their Stab ability(1 AP, Ignores armor) is melee based and is only really efficient vs high armor-low health targets. It is effective at what it does, but it is very situational and might still not 1-shot those targets. It's second ability(2 AP, 1 mana) is a x3 multi attack with poison. Since Poison does not appear to stack(or maybe it does and I have simply not used poison attacks enough), it is not even that efficient as a single target damage dealer.
Could be used as a secondary weapon set for great effect though(used to kill high armor, low health targets, use to finish off multiple, low health enemies) since it is cheap in terms of mana and AP.

[Erudite]

Poison does indeed stack, it's simply not guaranteed, which makes it problematic for the Druid Staff in particular as it requires a successful propagation roll to jump to a target, and then a poison chance roll to then apply a stack of poison.

That said, poison stacking has forced me to reconsider the effectiveness of the Dagger and Druid Staff weapons to a degree, though it's very hard to appreciate them even still, next to astronomically more powerful and efficient options such as Accuracy/Crit Tome of Secrets. Neither your own stats, nor the stats of the weapon being capable of increasing poison tick damage quickly leaves them in the dust (though there may be something to builds that can get away with only Accuracy for the ability to apply secondary effects, and forsake everything else for maybe gimmicky defense or something).

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by Erudite:

Poison does indeed stack, it's simply not guaranteed, which makes it problematic for the Druid Staff in particular as it requires a successful propagation roll to jump to a target, and then a poison chance roll to then apply a stack of poison.

That said, poison stacking has forced me to reconsider the effectiveness of the Dagger and Druid Staff weapons to a degree, though it's very hard to appreciate them even still, next to astronomically more powerful and efficient options such as Accuracy/Crit Tome of Secrets. Neither your own stats, nor the stats of the weapon being capable of increasing poison tick damage quickly leaves them in the dust (though there may be something to builds that can get away with only Accuracy for the ability to apply secondary effects, and forsake everything else for maybe gimmicky defense or something).

I am pretty sure propagation is guaranteed, no roll required. However, if it chains "the wrong way" it can reach a dead end, which can stop it early.

As you said, the real issue is, if the poison is applied at all with it's %. It is not something that is worth relying on in terms of damage and direct damage will overall be more efficient and reliable.
An enemy that will die at the start of the next turn due to poison will still occupy the space in the current turn. This can make it potentially difficult to get where you want to go and might also disrupt other propagation attacks into taking weird paths and finishing off targets that would have died to poison.
But as I said above, maybe in the full game, against enemies with very high amounts of armor, poison will be more effective(since the damage bypass armor). Or maybe there will be enemy types that are vulnerable to poison effects.

[Grobatof]

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

As you said, the real issue is, if the poison is applied at all with it's %. It is not something that is worth relying on in terms of damage and direct damage will overall be more efficient and reliable.

I agree. To optimize your damage, you'll probably prefer to go for guaranteed damage rather than roll the dice and adapt to who's been poisoned. It's not impossible or uninteresting to plan the latter, it's just needlessly complicated when you have direct damage weapons that do the job just fine.

Originally posted by Fendelphi:

2-handed has both great single target and AoE damage, with a bit of range on the attacks(making it a decent weapon for low movement characters). My first completion of the demo(I think it was my third run) had two 2-handed hammer guys

I disagree. The propagation AoE is powerful, but the single target attack has low damage/AP value. The high AP cost is explained by the AoStun. I personally think it remains a last resort option : firstly because the effect relies on %, secondly because when I have a pack of monsters, it is not something I want to control (in The Last Spell), it is a juicy target for the AoE damage dealers of the team. Why would I want to stall squishies where I could get the most value out of my AoDamage ?

[Yosuf]

-Weapon Swapping: i use it yesterday, bow/rifle and 2h sword/2h axe. In both cases it was useful bcs rifle and 2h axe are powerful but cost many ap to use them, and would use the secondary weapon if have some AP left or needed one of the secondary weapons skills like the bow's attack that ignore dodge.

-1h sword: i agree, it needs an extra attack or change one of the attacks. If not, this weapons will always need to be paired with another or be used as a secondary weapon to use in very situational conditions.

-1h hammer: i think this is the best 1h melee weapon. It is very useful.

-2h axe: i love this weapon, i think the combination between the movement skill and the one that hit all arround your character is great. And in the case you don't have any spot open to jump to, you can always use a ranged character to open it for you. And can always use a teleport or something like that to get out, but in any case, the big thing with this skills is that you need to plan your way out.

-2h hammer: another powerful weapon, yesterday a finished a run with 2h hammer and another char with 2h axe, this 2 melee weapons are very destructive against big amount of enemies.

-2h spear: didn't test it enough but could be the weakest 2h melee weapon. It has a good thing, it is safer to use than the other ones, it has more range options.

-1h pistol: i don't like this weapon a lot, i end reseting my game if one of my heroes start with the pistol.

-1h crossbow: i like the attacks but the low damage made me switch it for another weapon, it can be good as a secondary weapon to bring down enemies with very low hp.

-2h rifle: a very powerful weapon with very high damage and range. The down side is that cost a lot to use it: i end using a bow as a secondary for low cost attacks and AoEs. Other than that, the rifle is a single target monster, made to bring down enemies with one hit, similar to the Tome but without the aoe.The adventage over the Tome is that hit hardder to single targets, this weapon is for assassin strong units.

-2h crossbow: great weapon, very powerful, with many options to attack.

-2h bow: is a great weapon, and the first attack is great to bring down those enemies with high dodge.

-Tome: very powerful weapon, it makes a big difference to have a hero using it. Big damage and big range.

-Staff: i agree, this weapon needs some changes, it isn't very good.

-Nature Staff: i like this weapon but i think it ends being good as support or a secondary weapon. The effects are good but it doesn't kill well, which made my hero fall way behind on xp compared to the rest.

[Fendelphi]

Originally posted by Grobatar:

Well, sometimes you cant get into range for the AoE damage. Then the 2-3 range on the basic attack is not half bad. Also, against inidvidual targets, the basic attack is the best the 2-handed hammer has in terms of efficiency. If it was stronger, then it would outclass many of the other 2-handed weapons due to 2-handed hammer having both a bit of range, control, AoE and single target damage.

It is true that in the demo, raw damage is superior, but this could change as the game progresses(in the full release) and you meet tougher enemies or overwhelming numbers. Then the ability to either slow or stun enemies to buy more time/halt the enemy advance might have more of an impact. Especially on characters with a high amount of accuracy.