Is Melting Remnant Weak?

[enricofermi2]

After playing remnant they just feel weaker than the other classes. It feels to me like the scaling from reform is weaker than what most of the other decks have. As well, burnout feels like a genuine downside especially in bossfights, where your units just die in the middle of the battle.

Is Remnant weaker or am I just misplaying them. (Not saying they can't win a run, just that they feel like worse pick)

[Igorious]

Remnants are powerful enough. If you playing via resurrection, you should actively kill your units. Usually, they are resurrected 6-7 times (excepting 1st and 2nd fight).
Try to use a more powerful version of the resurrection, that gives additional attack.
Buff your units with +attack and multistrike.

[enricofermi2]

Multistrike on resurect sounds good, but I'm not sure I've ever seen it. Mabye its an unlock?

It's just way easier to play green, and stack regen and spikes on a unit and kill whatever. For remnant you just need so many cards. You need a strong unit to bring back, a card or several that reforms. Some way to kill your own units. And then something to give extra burnout for the final bossfight. It's just so much that you need for the combo to work.

[ShinryuEXE]

Reforming them gives extra burnout stacks. Plus some units refresh burnout stacks for other units.
Even then, usually that's not too much a concern. If you make them strong enough they just kill whatever boss they're up against before they run out of stacks.
Or you can combo it with units that Harvest, so even if your burnout units fade too quickly you're left with a super strong unit to mop up whatever's left.

As for your other points:
- If you want to go reform, you can just select the champion variant that reforms. Just put him on the top floor and he'll reform multiple units every turn.
- You don't need a way to kill your own units, you just let them get killed by enemies or die via burnout. If you want though, yes, there are some cards that make use of killing your own units.
- For multi-strike: He just meant, when at the monster upgrade shop, select multistrike and strength upgrades when available. If you're playing reform you'll get way more benefit out of those than you would health or other upgrades, especially since burnout units tend to have strong starting attack stats because they're expected to hit hard and then just die.

And if you're using Remnant as allied clan, not primary: couple easy ways you can use it.
- You can use reform cards to bring back strong allied units that have died. Again, this allows you to focus on strength rather than survivability and also gives you a bit of mitigation against enemies that have sweep and spikes that may end up killing your units despite your best intentions
- You can just throw in a couple burnout units and never worry about reviving them or keeping them alive. A lot of them don't take up a ton of space and hit hard, so they can fill out a floor's extra space when you need a bit of extra kick.
- Etc. etc. etc.

[Frosty the Pyro]

endless on remnant host (the tomb that makes 2 draff when it dies) and Big sludge = 15 rage a turn. If you have the double extinquish artifact, thats 25 rage a turn. Can also combine hillarously with the candle artifact (5 damage to all enemies when a burnout unit dies)

endless on the stealth tomb can also be great, particularly if you can add burnout 1 to it, stacking some prodigous amounts of stealth makes most bosses trivial.

an early bounty stalker (perminant +8 damage on death) can grow into something crazy (which you then copy in vents)

And even though eaten morsols no longer trigger harvest, there is still impresive synergy with umbra, as you can reform morsols, and choose which ones you want.

[enricofermi2]

Originally posted by Frosty the Pyro:

endless on remnant host (the tomb that makes 2 draff when it dies) and Big sludge = 15 rage a turn. If you have the double extinquish artifact, thats 25 rage a turn. Can also combine hillarously with the candle artifact (5 damage to all enemies when a burnout unit dies)

Does rage persist through death though, or do all rage buffs reset to 0 when reformed?

[Frosty the Pyro]

Originally posted by enricofermi2:

Originally posted by Frosty the Pyro:

endless on remnant host (the tomb that makes 2 draff when it dies) and Big sludge = 15 rage a turn. If you have the double extinquish artifact, thats 25 rage a turn. Can also combine hillarously with the candle artifact (5 damage to all enemies when a burnout unit dies)

Does rage persist through death though, or do all rage buffs reset to 0 when reformed?

i think rage is lost, but I am not sure, not a lot of reason for big sludge to die, it doesnt have burnout and you are slapping a tomb that will block at least 3 attacks (5 with the double extinquish artifact) in front of it each turn.

[Manxome]

I think the rule is that any effect that says "enhance" (or "permanently") persists through death (whether the unit is brought back via reforming, or endless, or whatever), while effects that use different language are canceled when the unit dies.

For instance, Wicklash[monster-train.fandom.com] says "Enhance a friendly unit with +5 Attack. Apply Burnout 2." If the unit subsequently dies and gets reformed, the +5 attack stays, but the Burnout 2 does not. (But the burnout added during the process of reforming the unit will remain through subsequent death and reformation, because the text of the "reform" keyword says "enhance".)

I'm not aware of anything in the game that uses "enhance" language when applying rage.

[enricofermi2]

I played it more and I stick with my initial thought. I think the other decks scale faster and require less cards to combo.

[Soothslayer]

Melting remnant decks that don't use legion or bounty hunter do require a bit more work to get rolling compared to other decks, but if you're cheesing with legion or bounty hunter they are more than capable of just mowing through things.

[gruetoo]

upgrading a unit with a Ragestone (start with 7 rage) means they have a fresh 7 rage each time they are summoned, making it strictly better than a flat +10 attack if they live 3 turns or less.

[Lorska]

Imo they make for an amazing allied clan:
- stealth for a floor
- cleansing yourself/enemies
- reforming key units (like imps or morsels)
- gold generation
- moving between floors
- starter cards that you don't need to remove, being 0 cost minions

This just makes them amazing for any mono-color strategy that just picks up a few support cards.

[DJDiceZ]

Originally posted by enricofermi2:

After playing remnant they just feel weaker than the other classes. It feels to me like the scaling from reform is weaker than what most of the other decks have. As well, burnout feels like a genuine downside especially in bossfights, where your units just die in the middle of the battle.

Is Remnant weaker or am I just misplaying them. (Not saying they can't win a run, just that they feel like worse pick)

If that's your issue you're probably misplaying them. Your champion's three upgrades can be quite valuable in their own way depending on what kind of you deck you go for. Rector Flicker can outclass all the other champions in term of damage and tanking in the early part of the run with the proper upgrade, and still be an even match for them further down the line. It takes a lot less effort to set him up than Penumbra, and while Thetys is incredible by the end of a run, he doesn't have that much survivability. Your starting cards are perfect for the clan too.

Not only that but to me it feels like Remnants have the potential to seriously increase the efficiency of units of whichever clan you pair them with (so kind of like in a support style): You never have to worry about running out of units as long as you have either a reform card or reform on the champion. Reform scales decently if you use it well, and one of the reform cards adds significant damage on top of the reform buff. It's obviously incredible paired with multistrike units.

Obviously the burnout is annoying (plus non burnout units start at burnout 1 with reform), but if you voluntarily sacrifice units and use them aggressively (useful for things like imps, morsels, etc), or even finish them off yourself with mechanics that are beneficial with this, you can create a constant flow of effects and units coming in and out. You get the effect, they serve as meatshields, and you can reuse them. It benefits harvests units aswell. The artefact that deals aoe damage on death is amazing, allowing you to do a lot of damage, or using a unit as a "makeshift Molting Imp".

By the time the boss comes, if you play around reforming units, your units will be at least burnout 2 or 3 (double that on innately burnout units) on top of being massively buffed up so they'll be much stronger than regular units for the boss. If that's not enough or if you can't keep your units coming back consistently before the boss (eg: not having enough ways to reform or having a holdover reform), you can use the cards that increase burnout by an ammount, they are good if you need to keep a unit from burning out.

Even if they get wiped out, keep in mind that unlike other clans, you can keep reusing your strongest units against the boss once or twice depending on how good and fast your deck is. I think the value in that is obvious. It should go without saying that holding onto your burnout units can be a worse idea than playing them as soon as you have them, unless you aren't playing with reform. That doesn't mean always playing them mindlessly right away either though, it'd be terrible to run out of units without means to revive them.

I havn't played enough of them and they honestly aren't my favorite, so i can't say i tried to or know how to play around certain units very well, but i can see the potential in them.

Melting Remnants have some very interesting cards like Memories of the Melted to pair with X cost cards, Crushing Demise is great if you can afford to use it (Kills a unit and allows you to buff them up/increase their burnout counter, the only problem is the random aspect), Stealth doesn't need to be discussed. Paraffin Thug + Wickless Tycoon and the artefact that gives money on friendly unit death can make you rich so you have access to every artefacts and upgrades you want. They have few spells but they are all very potent, and you have some cards to play around the death of friendly units and prevent it. I havn't tried the Bounty Stalker but he seems ridiculous.

[szbnahl]

My default approach for when I'm not in the mood for a challenge and just want to win is a Burn Bright (the upgrade that gives him big stat boosts and burnout 3) Flicker, a Lady of the Reformed (the one who gives friendly burnout units more burnout when she gets hit) in front of him and a Paraffin Enforcer (strike: +3 rage to burnout units) in the back.

Admittedly I'm only up to cov-12, so it may break down at higher levels, but so far it's never lost.

[itssirtou]

Res is one of the most powerful champion abilities, as a main clan it's really strong. A lot of people also stand by the burnout ability, I haven't tried it yet.

But it seems like a very questionable allied clan. It has some great tools to be sure, but it really relies on its gimmicks. Without Rektor to rely on, the gimmicks can fail a lot. Although there are some fun combos like Legion of Wax (buffed) with Intent on Death, Dripfall with anything to stack floors, or simply Holdover Smokescreen.

[Arylice]

The Melting Remnant is good ONLY with a single build: "REFORM".
And that build can only be played if you have the Melting Remnant main character with the specific skill. Otherwise, as an ally or with any other skill, he's terrible.
Or you have to pray for amazing RNG to get lots of Reform cards right at the start.