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Likely the easiest way to use Glugslider is to get Soul Siphon and give it Intrinsic. Channelsong or Prism Retrieval could be another path; let the Glugslider pass, then summon it when ready.
I haven't tried it, but I imagine it's possible to use Sketches of Salvation as well. But I'm not positive on that. The text of the artifact says Summon, rather than Play, so it should get around the extract cost. Dupe Gluggy a couple of times and have fun with the big boys.
With glug the power cost isn't the issue, it's the extract, something that you cant always get reliably. There are some artifacts, like the +2 base extract. But you can't count on it.
With your core minions, if you can't play them the turn they are drawn you will probally lose. So if you don't have the extract ready when you get glug it's over. As well, if picking glug requies you to find some artfiact/ or rare card to play it's not really a consistent strategy.
Mmm. But all three of these units are also very bad (totally unplayable in the case of the latter two, I would say. Demon Fiend is very occasionally OK if you happen to get the right artifacts) , so that kind of proves the OP's point.
I completely agree. have made several attempts to make it work but you have to thin out your deck at seom point and then you will have problems to play it. hardly playable as of now.
monstertrain://runresult/59f8d5b2-6f21-469c-933d-7d169b8971e1
Are these high cost units workable for every deck? Certainly not, they are pretty niche, but if you do work to fit them into your deck, rather than just as another unit, they can be extremely solid.
1) When drawn as a banner unit it can never be played (turn 1 or 2) so it is a dead card, because you will rarely have established your crystals that early. Worse, precisely because it is a banner unit, it may take up the space that a more useful unit would have taken, and delayed you a turn in getting set up.
2) When drawn later on (after cycling through your deck), it is not particularly useful... at this point you have probably stabilized your position and have your floors set up, and have already taken down multiple waves so there's no need for him
3) Because he is so damn big, he is useless as a blocker, since he can't really fit anything behind him. His one claim to fame is his massive amount of HP, but this is so useless when it's just him sitting there being wailed on.
He just has so many negatives going against him. It's a bottom tier card.
Mmm. Obviously it is possible to win with a copy of any card in your deck (bad banner units are worse than other bad cards because they block draw of good banner units, but even so). It's even true that it's usually possible to construct winning decks that would be losing decks if you removed the offending weak card (I think this is easier with Consumer than Glugsider, actually, simply because it's an offensive rather than a defensive card, so perhaps I was being slighly over-harsh above).
I'm not convinced that the run above is a particularly great advert for Consumer, though. It does look to me as though you probably need Consumer in it to win, mostly because it has strangely little damage scaling. One Fledgling Imp (not Endless), one (very good- you lucked out on that one) Olde Magic (not Holdover or hellvented), and one Spike of the Hellhorned (not generally a very good card, and you haven't upgraded it either) is it, and of those, only Olde Magic can be replayed and you have a relatively large deck to draw through. A 110*3 Consumer of Crowns is high enough initial damage that you may actually (with support) be somewhat OK even with little to no scaling.
I suspect you were slightly lucky in your draws, though. If you draw Consumer turn 1, then unless you also draw at least 2 of your 7 imps (counting Perils of Production as an imp) in the opening hand (and you have no card draw artifacts), you're not playing it until the second time through the deck, which is almost certainly far too late. If you draw it turn 2 or later, you're almost certainly fine because you get two free imps per turn from the champ. So about 15-20% of the time, you lose.
Possibly I'm missing something, though. And I can't see all the decisions you made just from the summary, obviously. I might try the seed myself for curiosity, though it wouldn't really prove anything whatever the outcome.
First up, great run - thank you for sharing it! I'm always fascinated to see how top players best the challenges of the game :)
I'm inclined to agree with the OP on this one, however. The reason why is: Of the 3 additional cards you mentioned, they all have multiple ways of getting around their friction points. Hell's Banners, Improved Firebox, Prism Retrieval, Flickor's Liqour, Volatile Gauge, Pyre chomper... and so on.
Where I come unstuck with Gluggy is that it cannot really cash in any of the above to play, aside from perhaps the artifact which summons 4 units to the middle floor. The only plays that can get around its Extract 4 are the ones you called at the start: Soul Siphon on intrinsic or alternatively the artifact that gets you 2 echoes + a little bit of luck. If it's tiny, you could maybe try to leverage the Spine Chief's echo ability too.
I want to like it - But I feel the lack of options to face the Extract 4 is really holding it back, especially as trying to play it means you'll likely have to forgo eggs or inspire-based decks. I was lucky to once get it on infused (so it only needed 3) and even then, I managed to get it out just the once.
Must have been in another thread, but I did a quick analysis of Demon Field and Siren of the Sea. On their own, you need about 5 turns to play the 20-22 cards to bring the Siren up to the same strength as Demon Fiend. It roughly works out that in that time the Siren has done 150 damage overall, while the Fiend in that time has done 250. Of course, you're not playing these things in isolation. But we can't really analyze that because there are far too many variable, ideal scenarios, pitfalls, and so on.
So yes, the Glugsider is one of the big units that will need focus to use reliably, just like most any unit. It's cost, though, I admit is pretty restrictive and thus is more of a gamble to take. I will admit, though, I am not at all well versed with the Wurmkin, I haven't won a cov25 with them as primary yet, and I find that a number of their units are hard to play. I've yet to gild First of Kin, for example ... I haven't really figured out how best to play such an expensive unit, both in cost and capacity.
As to my Consumer run, I can't remember how the opening went. I think I was lucky to get it second round. I did end up doing a bit of a pivot, as I had the Construct mostly up and ready, and then Consumer popped up in a late Banner. With the summoning Shardqueen, I figured I had a good shot at getting it out consistently, and most of all protecting it so it could smash from the top floor. I admit I'm not sure what scaling you are looking for, Quick and Multistrike, with Branded Warrior fusion. It's likely killing at least one thing if not two a turn. The plan was to use a Fledgling a turn as well, though at times it ended up I couldn't get the imps killed to free up space.
But, at least for me, the fact that it did win even if it wasn't a streamlined deck devoted to it, I think helps the case that it's actually a good unit.
Hah, no way am I a top player by any stretch. I do think I'm improving, though, but you can see my "Cov25-Are You Enjoying it" thread to see a number of my 'thought i was doing well until I wasn't' runs.
I would agree somewhat with you on the Glubsider, it is certainly a more restrictive set of criteria to meet to be able to play it. The others are mostly energy costs, which can be more easily obtained in various ways.
The Extract cost, though, it much more difficult without focusing on it (and luck). There are of course wurmkin relics that help; Base Charge and Carving Corusca being the two main ones. Bog Slime could be an aid, Encased Divinity a more nice one since it's just top floor. Dun Echo could help get you the infused cards, so that you can charge up a floor beforehand. Even then, you could miss the window if you draw Glugsider opening hand and you can't get the echoes up in time. It's probably a safer bet to take Glugsider when it's infused, a 3 cost is much easier to achieve consistently.
But lets look at it from a fix standpoint. Lowering the extract cost to 3 seems like the obviously solution, but now suddenly with all the above mentioned tools, you're basically guaranteed to play a 0/200 unit every time without much investment or issue. The Devs seem keen on keeping the big units as special cases that you need to devote attention to, given their nerf a while back to Shadowsiege to make it harder to just play.
This seems a bit off. Firstly, any reasonable Incant deck will get 20-22 Incant in about 3 turns, not 5 (I'm usually aiming for 7 spells per turn). Then, assuming you play top (and I do play top about 80% of the time, even more so in an Incant deck), the first two turns damage doesn't matter. So by the time you actually need to deal any damage to minion waves, the Siren is already as strong as the Demon Fiend. And in addition to that, it takes fewer pips, costs a fraction of the ember, and continues to scale up as the combat goes on and the fight gets harder.
The problem with Demon Fiend (and most of these units) is that they offer good initial stats for a high cost. But good initial stats are almost worthless in Monster Train, even more so now the DLC has arrived. No unit (not even Shadowsiege) has good enough initial stats to do much against the Last Divinity's minion waves; the game is all about scaling up as the combat goes on.
Demon Fiend isn't very hard to play. But it's too hard given how weak it is in play past the first 3-4 rings. Consumer and Shadowsiege have strong enough stats that if they cost only what Demon Fiend does, they might be good. But they require you to jump through much bigger hoops to get them in play. And Glugsider is, if anything, worse.
Consumer may actually be the best of the huge ones. In a minority of decks it's relatively easy to play and it has fairly good stats. It's problem is consistency; occasionally you won't be able to play it and if you're critically dependant on it, you lose.
Burn Bright Rector Flicker is weak for similar reasons (it's not nearly as bad, because it has very high stats and the downside is much easier to deal with).
Titanchannel Solgard is the only "huge unit with big drawback" that approaches decent, because it has truly enormous stats and the downside is actually pretty tiny.