How to get to Covenant 25

[mcflux101]

Hi

I have a few hours in Monster train now and I'm kind uf stuck at Covenant 12. I watch others play frequently and notice that they get away with stupid missplays and it feels lkike they are playing Covenant 1. But Myself I'm getting anihilated lot of the times.
Can you maybe have a few tims how to get to Covenant 25 easier? I dont want to play the best arctype over and over again just to get there. I may miss something completly that makes it a lot harder then it actually looks like.

Tahnks in advance
Cheers

[Crow]

Something that might make it easier for you is restart often till you get a set of starting cards that you are happy with. You could also do the same for the champion/artifact at the start but I've never found that nessisary.

Also, if you find that a combat has played out poorly, you can quit to main menu and resume play to reset the combat to the start. The deck order will be the same, but perhaps you can make better choices this time to win.

Other than that, there's the obvious stuff like:
Keep a slim deck so you draw the good cards.
Upgrade good units and copy them.
Practice, practice, practice.

[discodog]

A few things to think about from the beginning.

How am I going kill back line units

How am I going to kill high health frontline units

How am I going to kill the boss

How am I going to keep my units alive

You can make a decent guess at theses questions right away based on your starting clan, cards. champion, and enemies (seraph).

Don't take units or cards because they are "good". You probably don't need a sweep unit and the frostbite tank and the spike tank unit because they all solve the same problem (which is killing back line units).

You will get better I felt like I was stuck around covenant 14 for ever. But you can get over the hump.

I learned a lot watching Rhapsody

[Justice Potato]

You can place more units than the floor capacity allows by using cards that ascend/descent units.
Morsels can also be summoned/copied over capacity with the appropriate cards.

Thin out your deck in a manner that will actually be useful for you. If you run a reform or incant deck get rid of the stewards, otherwise prioritize getting rid of the spell cards you don't need.
The reason for prioritizing spell cards over stewards is that you can get rid of stewards during battle by just playing them on an floor you don't need filled. Meanwhile spell cards come back to clutter your hand regardless if you use them or not.
If you don't have the coin to get rid of spells, slap Consume on them.

You're guaranteed to draw a monster that you drafted via banners every turn until you go through your entire deck, much like you're guaranteed to always get your Champ on turn 1.
Use this to your advantage when building your deck. Don't focus too much on trimming it, don't bloat it with drafts, keep in mind that you'll manage a solid lineup on a upper floor by the time the enemies hit, etc.

[mcflux101]

Thanks for all the tips. A Lot of it I already know and figured out myself but I still cant figure out what I do wrong. Maybe I focus too much on relicts. In those kind of games they always have a much bigger impact then most of other options you have.

Restarting the fight is against the meaning of roguelike I think. Added this to the restart button mod as well. I just wonder if I do something wrong in general or am I just unlucky a lot of the times.

Do you guys beat he game at higher Covenant with different comps?

[The_Technomancer]

Originally posted by mcflux101:

Thanks for all the tips. A Lot of it I already know and figured out myself but I still cant figure out what I do wrong. Maybe I focus too much on relicts. In those kind of games they always have a much bigger impact then most of other options you have.

Restarting the fight is against the meaning of roguelike I think. Added this to the restart button mod as well. I just wonder if I do something wrong in general or am I just unlucky a lot of the times.

Do you guys beat he game at higher Covenant with different comps?

As a cov 25 player, I'd consider relics to be the least important thing to look for in any given run. They definitely can have a big impact and it's nice if you happen to be able to get some but their general power level in relation to your current build is too inconsistent to go out of your way for imo.

More info like this would help us identify where you might be making mistakes.
-How often do you take trials?
-Do you play random/random?
-What are you general priorities for things to look for while deciding routes and picking trials?
-Are there any bosses/units in particular you struggle with?
-What are the cards you consider must-takes or always ignore?

[mcflux101]

Originally posted by The_Technomancer:

More info like this would help us identify where you might be making mistakes.
-How often do you take trials?
-Do you play random/random?
-What are you general priorities for things to look for while deciding routes and picking trials?
-Are there any bosses/units in particular you struggle with?
-What are the cards you consider must-takes or always ignore?

I usually take the early two and pass on the laters ones since it mostly ends up me losing.

I usually want to try compositions of clans i have won with yet or not played a lot for. Sometimes I randomize the secpond clan, but i usually select the first on purpose.

I prioritize shops at the start to get new units going if i got for a unit build and spells if im spell focused. If possible with the option to remove useless cards.

Most problems I noteced is that I cannot ramp up my powerlevel fast enough, so enemy units pass up to the pyre and kill it.

With Awoken I usually try to get a spike tank and If i get offered a Razorsharp Edge. I usually pass Channelsong, seems to be a beginner trap and in general i avoid movement cards.

With Stygian I have the least rpoblems with but I cnanot only play Stygian. the Frostbite builds are nearly without competition. I usually dont pass titan Sentry or Siren of the Sea, depending on the build I do, but usually avdoid cards like Titans Gratitude and Harness the Titan.

With Umbra I nearly never pass a Morselmaker, a Crucible Warden or Overgorger or Ember Cache but mostly pass on Gem Trove, Feast, Forever Consumed or Retch.

With Melting priorities depend a lot on if i want my minions to die or stay. but I never pass up Legion of Way (only had it 1 or 2 times :/) Big Sludge and probably Wickless Tycoon. but most of the time pass on Paraffin Enforcer, the two Ladies, Votivary and Subsumering Blade (scales bad). Resin Removal I like a lot to clear emberdrain, but dont know if its worth it. Also helps with two type of the endboss.

Sometimes I like a silence card to help with some anoying ones and even some bosses.

[Hearts™]

I'm C25 and have been chipping away at the expert challenges now. The biggest and best piece of advice I got was: SKIP CARDS if none of them help your deck. Also, don't always take higher rarity cards unless you think they will specifically be helpful. There are definitely situations where that Molded helps you more than the Intent On Death does. Believe it or not, this is also true of relics. Sometimes neither of the relics you have on offer actually help, and that 25 gold is better to take.

This is particularly important with units. After a certain point, you should be duping upgraded units as a way of increasing your unit count instead of taking them from banners. Of course it's all still situational, but one of the main things that helped me improve was a willingness to skip adding cards. Those 10 gold you get for skipping also adds up surprisingly fast.

[Hearts™]

Oh, one more thing: At the start of a run, it tells you what kind of Seraph you're getting. As you build your deck, treat the Seraph type as a problem you are specifically trying to solve. Up against the one who makes all your cards Consume? Keep an eye out for Imp Scholar who adds consumed cards back when you summon him. Dupe him or maybe give him Endless, and voila, you're in great shape. That's just an example.

[Idlemind]

random random depart
repeat

[tookerdoter]

Originally posted by mcflux101:

in general i avoid movement cards.

These are some of the most important cards in the game. This is what lets you stack a floor past capacity and also re-arrange waves to be more favorable.

Originally posted by mcflux101:

I usually pass Channelsong, seems to be a beginner trap

Also channelsong is a lot better than you might think if you get it slotted with an eternalstone to remove consume.

There's nothing that says you have to PLAY the unit you draw with it right away, and if you take off consume, you can keep channeling the same unit multiple times before you play it.

[The_Technomancer]

Sorry to toss all those questions at you; I was just trying to get a better idea of your choices during the run.

Originally posted by mcflux101:

I usually take the early two and pass on the laters ones since it mostly ends up me losing.

I usually want to try compositions of clans i have won with yet or not played a lot for. Sometimes I randomize the secpond clan, but i usually select the first on purpose.

I prioritize shops at the start to get new units going if i got for a unit build and spells if im spell focused. If possible with the option to remove useless cards.

I can understand not wanting to tunnel vision an OP build to climb but that will slow down your progression a bit. While all clan combos can beat cov 25, some are more consistent than others. Point is if that's what you wanna do then don't worry about how others seem to have an easier time. I'm sure you'll still be able climb.

As for trials and route picking both of those need to be done pretty much in the moment and based on where the strengths/weaknesses of your deck are and not where you want it to be. Knowing which enemy types you have answered and with what is a big part of deciding what you need and what risks you can take. Though taking some risky trials for extra gold can also be worth it since without gold you can't upgrade and if you can't upgrade you'll lose anyway.

That said there are a couple general tips I can give you. I'd recommend always going for trials that give unit banners as units are incredibly important. Which leads into my next tip that minions are generally more important than spells. I'd almost recommend always going for the unit shop at the first circle (pretty sure it should always have a unit banner) because of this. While there are strong spells and you can usually use them multiple times per fight, units are just much more consistent answers if you can keep them alive. This is due to the priority system drawing you at least one banner unit per turn, and once played you generally don't have to waste more draw and energy on them like with spells. Also go to shops first just to see what upgrades are available before doing other things like banners/events, it really helps.

Originally posted by mcflux101:

Most problems I noteced is that I cannot ramp up my powerlevel fast enough, so enemy units pass up to the pyre and kill it.

Sounds like you're focusing a bit too much on scaling damage which typically counters bosses unless it's out of control. Sometimes you just need some minions or spells that are easy to get big numbers on for those tanks that are slipping by. Personally I let my champ cover that front for the most part with things like frostbite tethys, wrathful prince, and trample penumbra.

Originally posted by mcflux101:

With Awoken I usually try to get a spike tank and If i get offered a Razorsharp Edge. I usually pass Channelsong, seems to be a beginner trap and in general i avoid movement cards.

With Stygian I have the least rpoblems with but I cnanot only play Stygian. the Frostbite builds are nearly without competition. I usually dont pass titan Sentry or Siren of the Sea, depending on the build I do, but usually avdoid cards like Titans Gratitude and Harness the Titan.

With Umbra I nearly never pass a Morselmaker, a Crucible Warden or Overgorger or Ember Cache but mostly pass on Gem Trove, Feast, Forever Consumed or Retch.

With Melting priorities depend a lot on if i want my minions to die or stay. but I never pass up Legion of Way (only had it 1 or 2 times :/) Big Sludge and probably Wickless Tycoon. but most of the time pass on Paraffin Enforcer, the two Ladies, Votivary and Subsumering Blade (scales bad). Resin Removal I like a lot to clear emberdrain, but dont know if its worth it. Also helps with two type of the endboss.

Sometimes I like a silence card to help with some anoying ones and even some bosses

I can't go into all the specifics of what to take and when to take it so I'll just cover some more basic picks here.

I think you should look at movement cards more. Not only can they be used to cheat capacity for stronger floors, but they can also be used to help with removal. Ascends can separate key enemies from their group to focus them down or prevent triggered abilities and descends can help kill those tanks that you say slip by you.

Morsel master is the 2 cost that automatically spawns 2 morsels and crucible warden is the damage shield gorger. If those are the units you meant (their names can get confused) I'd recommend their counterparts in pretty much every situation. Morsel master's duplicating morsel ability offers more control over capacity and will provide far more buffs over the fight than +4+4 a turn. As for crucible collector, while it might seem better to prevent incoming damage with damage shield instead of heal it up with lifesteal the lifesteal gorger is better (except against seraph the patient) since he can only lose one lifesteal per turn (don't put multistrike on it) as opposed to multiple damage shields per turn. It's just easier to manage.

Other than that a lot of what you mentioned do tend to be quite good most of the time. But the things you don't take can still find situations they can be the key to victory in. Even subsuming blade can usable just for the fact that it pierces even if it does scale rather slowly. Just a tip though: make sure you're scaling your cards in ways they actually like to scale unless it takes an upgrade slot. It's just something I see lower cov players do like giving thorned hallow healing so it can gain spikes then trying to buff it's attack damage with rage for no reason. Or spending money to put a +10 damage upgrade on overgorger when they slot could have been used for more health or multistrike.

[Gabriot]

With any of my losses I try to gain a good understanding of why I lost, then adjust moving forward to prepare accordingly or not make the same mistakes. It's a constant learning experience, and I'm pretty high winrate covenant 25 but still having to constantly play wack-a-mole with my own mistakes.

In general you need to always be preparing for the particular variant of Seraph that's ahead of you, as each one has specific counters that will allow a mediocre deck to still beat him. Otherwise you'll only win on your "stomps" that sort of just indiscriminately beat everything thrown at them. I have all those specific answers outlined here if it helps: https://youtu.be/tbPgzzV0iHE

But at the same time you'll obviously still need to focus on the "now" as well as the "later", and even if you've put things in your deck to deal with Seraph, that sure won't matter if you can't take on the bosses that lie right head of you.

So you have a few things to consider:

-What is my clan combo typically strong at, what are they weak at?

-The champ path I'm offered, what will be "the nuts" for it and how likely can I gameplan around that?

-How realistic can I beat a trial I'm offered? If I'm Tethys, I don't have good "big" damage spells like ice tornado and helical crystalis, but I see Spikes ahead of me and don't have a good banner unit yet, probably shouldn't take it. Alternatively, if I started with 2 ice tornadoes and 2 crypt builders? Sure I'll do it, I'll just put Tethys at top and kill all the spiked units with spells, then when the boss comes around he won't have spikes and I'll just have a train steward in front of Tethys and that's enough for at least frostbite tethys to slay the first boss

-Once you start getting to the mid and end game, can you deal with tanks? Not every deck can, and if that's the case you want to hunt for ways to refill pyre hp since you can't consistently preserve it. This could mean things like taking the pyre hp path whenever it comes up, hunting for concealed caverns whenever they come up (there's a few events like the one that allows you to heal hp w/ blight cards, Bone dog, spell upgrade that basically makes it bone dog, or to a lesser extent bone shine, all of these can work). Also if you were to see some artifacts, such as the one that heals 5 hp from consumed cards, you'd want to take that over something more "sexy" unless that sexy artifact somehow aids in killing tanks.

-You need some way to sustain and kill the bosses, *especially* the "big" ones like Daedelus and Archus and of course Seraph. This one can catch you off guard, often I've lost to Archus especially because no other boss up until that point even comes close to having the stats he has (1900 hp and 25 damage), so whereas I could stomp everything without issue leading up to him, I get to him and I just have no way to deal with taking out that many stats on a boss. Each clan has specific cards that aid w/ this - Hellhorned has armor and superfloor stacking, awoken has regen and spikes with good tanks, stygian has frostbite, sap, incant hp/armor gain, Umbra has lifesteal and damage shield, and Melting Remnant has stealth and/or the ability to reform on each floor of the boss fight. Moreover some of the more broken boss variants such as Talos the Architect will push your front liner to the back, so you'll have to know how to deal w/ that, some times that means just not playing your dps unit until the end and letting most the waves by to hit your pyre if you have enough buffer room.

-Knowing which upgrades work we// with which spell and which units is going to go a long ways too. If you are a morsel-based Umbra build for example, knowing that a +10 damage ugprade combined with holdover on Antumbra Assault is S tier in this will go a long way. Knowing Razorsharp Edge at 0 cost and holdover will outscale sap seraph will go a long way. Knowing a +10 damage glimmer or vent on holdover will guarantee you never have to worry about AOE again will go a long way. Knowing double stack on wildwood sap is almost always better than eternalstone on wildwood sap (unless it's Seraph the Chaste in your future) will go a long way. Knowing +25 hp and Endless on Titan Sentry is the "gold standard" for that unit will go a long way. etc. etc.

[mcflux101]

Originally posted by tookerdoter:

Originally posted by mcflux101:

in general i avoid movement cards.

These are some of the most important cards in the game. This is what lets you stack a floor past capacity and also re-arrange waves to be more favorable.

Originally posted by mcflux101:

I usually pass Channelsong, seems to be a beginner trap

Also channelsong is a lot better than you might think if you get it slotted with an eternalstone to remove consume.

There's nothing that says you have to PLAY the unit you draw with it right away, and if you take off consume, you can keep channeling the same unit multiple times before you play it.

But usually I already played all my minions when channelsong comes up and its far too inconsistent it feels. Maybe if you get give it permafrost.

Thanks a lot for the serious and very helpfull tips. I will take them by heart and hope the will get me a little further and let me think more about my strategy then jsut take the best I get to offer or tunnelvision from then start because I want to try a certain build.

I cant mark more then one comment as the correct answer so forgive me with that :)

[tookerdoter]

Originally posted by mcflux101:

But usually I already played all my minions when channelsong comes up and its far too inconsistent it feels. Maybe if you get give it permafrost.

Right so what you do is play all the units except deliberately skip the one you want to channel, just discard it or whatever. It has to come around again, that's true, but until you burn through all of your consumes it should be unlikely to draw them out of order or both on the same turn multiple times.

Usually you would use a multi-striker like "animus of will" or something that benefits from the repeat atk/hp boost.

Anyway you are right that it is a very specialized card since it does not work at all if you thin your deck down to where you draw all of your cards every turn. Not something you want to pick for every deck since you have to plan on how to use it right, which goes for a lot of the strongest cards.

My point was more that there aren't really any "not-as-good-as-it-looks" beginner trap kind of cards in this game. Almost everything that looks like it could be good can actually be used effectively, but it may require investing a lot of resources in it.

That's one of the steepest skill curves to climb - learning not just which cards to pick, but where to invest your limited resources in terms of both gold and map path selection (ie do i prioritize the magic shop, the blacksmith shop, or hellvents?)


EDIT:

I take that back where I said there are no beginner trap cards. There is at least one.

The Umbra robot "Alloyed Construct" is the #1 worst unit in the game but many new players think it looks strong.

It is NOT. It gets TERRIBLE gas mileage.

[Foolswalkin]

Some times I restart until I get particular relics. Flicker’s Liquor, Endless Key, Imp-cicle, Cuttlebeard, the candle that makes burnout units into bombs, the sniffer that doubles extinguish effects, the double Incant Stygian relic, the demons get multi strike relic... these all make particular builds and comps play significantly differently and/or better. Superfood Primordium, for example, is really good with Endless Key. Dark Calling Flicker with Queen’s Imps is really good with the bomb candle. Impcicle is pretty important if you want a transcendimp build. Mostly, though, it’s just good to avoid the boring stuff - armor on your pyre, etc.

My most recent new fun build was Strangler/Thornlord wydenten with Melted secondary. With endless and burnout on a molten encasement, he basically held every attack to the first floor and grew and grew. Throw some harvest units behind him and win.