Darkvision has no effect?

[Titansfury]

Darkvision is supposed to treat darkness as dim light and dim light as bright light, however when I am fighting using a full party who possesses darkvision I am getting accuracy penalties for fighting in darkness. Dim light doesn't apply disadvantage to attacks in DnD, just disadvantage to perception, therefore characters with darkvision should not have this problem. It's actually a very serious problem considering that the monsters which have darkvision DO NOT attack with disadvantage in the darkness.

[Dakan]

I wouldn't care if the monsters also had disadvantage, but they need to pick one or the other. Either no one with darkvision has disadvantage or everyone does.

[Kasa]

They altered DV rules, darkness and dim light now give gives disadvantage on attack rolls and some monsters have supior DV which gives them disadvantage on attack roll in bright light.

Races with regular dark vision can see in darkness as if it was dim light but still get disadvantage on attack roles. But dim light counts as normal light for them with no dus advantage for bright light.

It effectivly means DV races can see 120ft with torch/spell light

[Titansfury]

So there's no functional difference between darkness and dim light? That means rogues have been well and truly shafted by this system. You can't get sneak attacks off when ambushing because you will always alert enemies if you use a light source to make them "visible" to get rid of the stupid dim light penalty. This also gives enemy ranged units a HUGE advantage over your party's ranged units. It's practically impossible to light up an enemy without closing into melee range of them with at least 1 character, so your snipers can't really *snipe* anything, and you'd be better suited just magic missile spamming the crap out of every darkness encounter. I don't want to resort to magic missile spam cheese, but this game seems to want me to do just that.

[wizard1200]

Dancing lights enables you to place and move a light source.

[mm.324]

Originally posted by Titansfury:

So there's no functional difference between darkness and dim light? That means rogues have been well and truly shafted by this system. You can't get sneak attacks off when ambushing because you will always alert enemies if you use a light source to make them "visible" to get rid of the stupid dim light penalty. This also gives enemy ranged units a HUGE advantage over your party's ranged units. It's practically impossible to light up an enemy without closing into melee range of them with at least 1 character, so your snipers can't really *snipe* anything, and you'd be better suited just magic missile spamming the crap out of every darkness encounter. I don't want to resort to magic missile spam cheese, but this game seems to want me to do just that.

This ^^, and rogues are my favorite to play.

[Silverquick]

Originally posted by Titansfury:

Darkvision is supposed to treat darkness as dim light and dim light as bright light, however when I am fighting using a full party who possesses darkvision I am getting accuracy penalties for fighting in darkness. Dim light doesn't apply disadvantage to attacks in DnD, just disadvantage to perception, therefore characters with darkvision should not have this problem. It's actually a very serious problem considering that the monsters which have darkvision DO NOT attack with disadvantage in the darkness.

Yeah I noticed this too... and it seems to also be the case with low light vision.

For some reason the game seems to ignore it at times as well. I'll be in a low light environment and suddenly noticing that its treating my low light and darkvision characters as if they didn't have any.

[Judias]

I know there's been a long post about this re video game balance, but tbh the nerf to darkvision is a TERRIBLE decision. The worst I've seen so far, especially when you have an early fight with the sarlacks on top of pillars where dancing lights is ineffective (one clinging to the wall directly above the dancing light was still in darkness - if you plan on using verticality & darkness as much as I've seen so far then you MUST consider verticality in light sources) and the enemies run away and have the 'Superior Darkvision' you're so proud of. Just... No. I don't think I've ever come as close to rage quitting so early in a game because of completely BS mechanics, especially when I have planned for them (wizrd is an elf with darkvision specifically to give me one character who could deal with this sort of threat without having to try and get someone with a torch at the archer that's several jumps away in darkness - this is not to my mind a problem with balance as it means I have to commit my wizard to dealing with that archer).
I've selected a party that has some members with darkvision and some without. I expect my members with darkvision to suffer less in darkness, and this was a deliberate choice at the start. Having no difference makes darkvision (both racial and ESPECIALLY the spell) completely useless.
Also... it is a single player game. if having a full party with Darkvision is something that makes it too easy, bring up a help message before starting advising this. if someone wants to go for that anyway... let them! It's single player! People should be able to play as they choose.

[mm.324]

Originally posted by Judias:

People should be able to play as they choose.

+1000

[valeran46]

Originally posted by Judias:

I know there's been a long post about this re video game balance, but tbh the nerf to darkvision is a TERRIBLE decision. The worst I've seen so far, especially when you have an early fight with the sarlacks on top of pillars where dancing lights is ineffective (one clinging to the wall directly above the dancing light was still in darkness - if you plan on using verticality & darkness as much as I've seen so far then you MUST consider verticality in light sources) and the enemies run away and have the 'Superior Darkvision' you're so proud of. Just... No. I don't think I've ever come as close to rage quitting so early in a game because of completely BS mechanics, especially when I have planned for them (wizrd is an elf with darkvision specifically to give me one character who could deal with this sort of threat without having to try and get someone with a torch at the archer that's several jumps away in darkness - this is not to my mind a problem with balance as it means I have to commit my wizard to dealing with that archer).
I've selected a party that has some members with darkvision and some without. I expect my members with darkvision to suffer less in darkness, and this was a deliberate choice at the start. Having no difference makes darkvision (both racial and ESPECIALLY the spell) completely useless.
Also... it is a single player game. if having a full party with Darkvision is something that makes it too easy, bring up a help message before starting advising this. if someone wants to go for that anyway... let them! It's single player! People should be able to play as they choose.

Exactly!

If someone WANTS to run all humans so the combat is harder? Fine. They can do it. If someone wants to run all elves so the dimlight isn't an issue? That's their choice. Forcing the darkvision mechanic to make combat a slog of missing on purpose? My wizard went from an elven darkvision spellcaster to a portable light source chasing monsters to keep them in light. And that, isn't fun.

[mm.324]

Originally posted by valeran46:

If someone WANTS to run all humans so the combat is harder? Fine. They can do it. If someone wants to run all elves so the dimlight isn't an issue? That's their choice. Forcing the darkvision mechanic to make combat a slog of missing on purpose? My wizard went from an elven darkvision spellcaster to a portable light source chasing monsters to keep them in light. And that, isn't fun.

I agree.

[Mecha01]

Originally posted by Kasa:

They altered DV rules, darkness and dim light now give gives disadvantage on attack rolls and some monsters have supior DV which gives them disadvantage on attack roll in bright light.

Races with regular dark vision can see in darkness as if it was dim light but still get disadvantage on attack roles. But dim light counts as normal light for them with no dus advantage for bright light.

It effectivly means DV races can see 120ft with torch/spell light

dumbest freaking idea ever. Their 'great idea' on 'fixing' lighting for them is atrocious.

[Mecha01]

Originally posted by mm.324:

Originally posted by valeran46:

If someone WANTS to run all humans so the combat is harder? Fine. They can do it. If someone wants to run all elves so the dimlight isn't an issue? That's their choice. Forcing the darkvision mechanic to make combat a slog of missing on purpose? My wizard went from an elven darkvision spellcaster to a portable light source chasing monsters to keep them in light. And that, isn't fun.

I agree.

110%. Use the 5e rules- or don't. But don't break something fairly fundamental like this.