Cleric Casting rules?

[Daniel_USA]

Clerics should be allowed to use their shields as casting focus as well as not require a free hand to cast spells that require material or somatic components yet the life cleric you get at the start can't cast shield of faith on herself because the game is looking for a free hand.

[Acadiantri]

Only the battle cleric can cast with a weapon in one hand and a shield in the other. For the other subclasses, either use a 2-H weapon or go to the cleric's inventory, unequip the shield or weapon, leave the inventory, cast the spell, re-enter inventory (if in battle, this will be the next turn), re-equip the shield or weapon. Or you can go into settings and change the spellcasting requirements. (I think.)

[Blackmage]

The somatic component requirement applies to all spellcasters. Why should clerics get special treatment? And dealing with the somatic component issue isn't difficult. It's just most DMs don't enforce it IRL, so most players are used to having things on easy mode.

Just keep the free hand with a shield. Your cleric is probably never going to use that mace or w/e when they got Guiding Bolt, Sacred Flame, and a dozen other better options than some simple melee weapon.

[Indure]

Originally posted by Daniel_USA:

@blackmage it is 5e rules it's not special treatment it is how it's written!

now if they changed that rule for the game itself then that is fine but how about you try responding without having such an ignorant reply?

Spellcasting Focus
You can use a holy symbol as a spellcasting focus for your cleric spells.

Holy Symbol
PHB
p151
Spellcasting focus
A holy symbol is a representation of a god or pantheon. It might be an amulet depicting a symbol representing a deity, the same symbol carefully engraved or inlaid as an emblem on a shield, or a tiny box holding a fragment of a sacred relic. A cleric or paladin can use a holy symbol as a spellcasting focus. To use the symbol in this way, the caster must hold it in hand, wear it visibly, or bear it on a shield.

BEAR IT ON A SHIELD <-------------

No, a DM is "not enforcing it", a DM is enforcing it; it's just that the rules allow clerics and paladins to have their spellcasting focus ON A SHIELD.

A focus only replaces the requirement for the material components of the spell. Somatic components aren't covered by the focus. The problem with Solasta is that they don't have a feat like warcaster that allows all classes/subclasses the ability to offset the somatic component.

Ideally it could be added to Flawless Concentration since as a feat it has the requirement of needing spells. But Flawless Concentration is already very good so maybe that is overkill.

[Blackmage]

Originally posted by Daniel_USA:

@blackmage it is 5e rules it's not special treatment it is how it's written!

now if they changed that rule for the game itself then that is fine but how about you try responding without having such an ignorant reply?

Spellcasting Focus
You can use a holy symbol as a spellcasting focus for your cleric spells.

Holy Symbol
PHB
p151
Spellcasting focus
A holy symbol is a representation of a god or pantheon. It might be an amulet depicting a symbol representing a deity, the same symbol carefully engraved or inlaid as an emblem on a shield, or a tiny box holding a fragment of a sacred relic. A cleric or paladin can use a holy symbol as a spellcasting focus. To use the symbol in this way, the caster must hold it in hand, wear it visibly, or bear it on a shield.

BEAR IT ON A SHIELD <-------------

No, a DM is "not enforcing it", a DM is enforcing it; it's just that the rules allow clerics and paladins to have their spellcasting focus ON A SHIELD.

I'm fully aware of the rules in the PHB. Nothing of what I said is false. You sounded off like you're making the demand for an entire rules change to fit your whiny baby attitude. I gave you a solution, and you call me ignorant? Well you can just go shove it.

If you want a shield to be your spellcasting focus you first you have to get a shield with a holy symbol on it. Not every shield is going to have a holy symbol on it. And this that's for MATERIAL components, not somatic. Go back to school and learn to read.

Have you ever worn a heater or kite shield in real life? Yeah, I didn't think so. While you can move your whole arm, you really cannot move your wrist, hand or fingers so easily with losing control of it. So it makes perfect sense that if your spell requires Somatic components, you need a free hand if you don't have the special training for it.

[Indure]

Originally posted by Daniel_USA:

PHB p203

"A spellcaster must have a hand free to access these components, but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components."

@blackmage

there you go. ♥♥♥♥♥

you can do somatic components with the same hand as material components

what's it matter if it's a focus or a pouch it counts the same.

looks like you are just angy

WARCASTER has it's uses for classes like Eldritch Knight or a Hexblade with a shield.

The point is you don't have a hand free. One hand has a shield the other has a weapon. The focus just removes the need for material components. You haven't solved the problem of casting somatically.

[Berserkr]

Turn it off in the options and move on

[lejes]

Originally posted by Indure:

The point is you don't have a hand free. One hand has a shield the other has a weapon. The focus just removes the need for material components. You haven't solved the problem of casting somatically.

I guess you are right according to this site:
http://dmsworkshop.com/2018/04/15/dd-tips-spellcasting-components-and-focuses/

[Blackmage]

Originally posted by Indure:

The point is you don't have a hand free. One hand has a shield the other has a weapon. The focus just removes the need for material components. You haven't solved the problem of casting somatically.

Thank you. Someone else who understands. Maybe this simp will listen to you?

"If the same cleric casts cure wounds, she needs to put the mace or the shield away, because that spell doesn’t have a material component but does have a somatic component. She’s going to need a free hand to make the spell’s gestures. If she had the War Caster feat, she could ignore this restriction."

And he still hasn't realized that just because the shield exists, it isn't automatically a spell focus.

[EdrickV]

Holy symbol shields aren't in the game as far as I know, and PHB rules may not matter unless they're also in the SRD.

Having read threads about this recently, the regular 5e rules are kinda strange since a holy symbol shield could be used to cast VSM spells but the cleric would need a hand free for VS or S spells. In game, I use the third weapon set or ranged weapon set for casting spells. (The third set, normally setup for lighting, I use with just a weapon equipped while the first set has weapon and shield, and the second set has a bow equipped.)

I personally wouldn't mind if holy symbol shields were added, but to me it's not that big of a deal. (Realistically, it seems to me most shields are hung on the arm, so unless you're actively using the shield in combat, you ought to be able to use that hand to cast spells. As long as you don't hit yourself with the shield while casting a spell. I can hang grocery bags on an arm and still unlock and open doors with that hand.)

[Blackmage]

Originally posted by EdrickV:

I personally wouldn't mind if holy symbol shields were added, but to me it's not that big of a deal. (Realistically, it seems to me most shields are hung on the arm, so unless you're actively using the shield in combat, you ought to be able to use that hand to cast spells. As long as you don't hit yourself with the shield while casting a spell. I can hang grocery bags on an arm and still unlock and open doors with that hand.)

Actually, shields are held with minimal amounts of bracing. You hold a shield with your hand, the forearm strap only serves as a stabilizer to keep it from flailing about, but it is easily slipped in and out of. The reason for this is because if the shield becomes necessary, unsuitable, or unusable for the situation, you need to be able to don or remove it fast. You could not do that if it was actually fastened to your arm. "Good sir, give me one moment to strap this shield to my AAAHHHGGGbllblbelblbl..."

I can hang a dozen of full grocery bags on my arms too. But there is a big difference between grasping a door handle and waving your hand and fingers in specific forms or gestures. And I know that many bags could amount to as much as 20-30 pounds of weight on my arms. Fortunately, most shields don't weigh anywhere near that much, because if they're too heavy to lift and defend yourself with, it's just dead weight that'd get you killed.

[Cartesian Duelist]

Originally posted by EdrickV:

Having read threads about this recently, the regular 5e rules are kinda strange since a holy symbol shield could be used to cast VSM spells but the cleric would need a hand free for VS or S spells. In game, I use the third weapon set or ranged weapon set for casting spells. (The third set, normally setup for lighting, I use with just a weapon equipped while the first set has weapon and shield, and the second set has a bow equipped.)

Because two-handed weapons can be held in one hand when not actively being used, you could switch to your bow loadout and cast spells. If you wanted to maintain the protection of a shield while casting, you might want to have weapon+shield, bow, free hand+shield as your loadouts. Then you can switch to free hand+shield to cast and still get the AC bonus.

[dulany67]

I was kind of concerned about this, but I've decided to just turn somatic off. From my playthrough, it only really affects the cleric as my wizard always had a free hand anyway. I would prefer not to do this but switching weapon sets to cast would get irritating after a while.

For me, I guess it comes down to whether this ambiguous rule (with respect to shield clerics) is more important to me than actually building a shield cleric.

Also, rather than use the shield hand to cast, couldn't the character simply hand his weapon to his shield hand briefly while casting? I mean if the shield is strapped to the arm, how difficult is it to let go of the grip and hold a one handed weapon for the time necessary to cast and then pass the weapon back and re-grip?

[EdrickV]

Originally posted by Cartesian Duelist:

Because two-handed weapons can be held in one hand when not actively being used, you could switch to your bow loadout and cast spells. If you wanted to maintain the protection of a shield while casting, you might want to have weapon+shield, bow, free hand+shield as your loadouts. Then you can switch to free hand+shield to cast and still get the AC bonus.

Technically speaking, the bow itself is a one handed item, it's the arrow you hold in the other hand, which is why that works. The way the game is setup right now, if I wanted to do a free hand + shield setup, I would have to give up the bow and rely only on magic for ranged attacks. And I would still have a slot that's Weapon + empty hand/light source. I'd also miss out on attacks of opportunity. Since one of the spells I am most likely to use is done with a bonus action, I like the weapon+empty hand setup better so I can attack and heal in the same round. And I use the bows a lot for most of my characters, except for my wizard. (He's got a bow but hasn't really used it.)

One thing to keep an eye on, is that sometimes the game messes with your equipped items. I've seen it displace a magical shield with one I think I looted, swap my fighter's off hand weapon with a shield, and equip a dagger or a quarterstaff in my mage's off hand. If you don't notice when it happens, it's possible to use up your one round item change and then not be able to do what you wanted.

[Indure]

Berserkr had the best advice; either play with how they have it implement or go into the options and turn it off. Everyone wins.

[Hero_Weasel]

If bothering with a shield is too much trouble, consider taking a feat or background that will let you use two-handed or versatile weapons:

Might of the Iron Legion (longsword, battleaxe; d8 or d10 if free hand, greatsword; heavy armor; +1str)
or
Sturdiness of the Tundra (warhammer; d8 or d10 if free hand; +1con)
or
Lawkeeper background (martial weapon feat; aka all the weapons, 2hand, versatile, etc.)

These feats/backgrounds will let you wack things a bit harder than the mace will, and free up the shield management. If you take Might of the Iron Legion you can also upgrade to heavy armor making up the loss in shield AC.

My melee weapon on my cleric is mostly used when the cleric is concentrating on Bless, or Spirits, or other spells that take concentration. Also those feats shouldnt be considered just for the shield dropping and minor damage upgrade, but the flexibility of magic weapon access too. Some nice longswords and hammers to wield.