Just a few hours in

[deepgreenbear]

So, I've been playing around a bit with BG3 and I really wasn't happy with the NPC choices pre launch. They are all just kind of... well... how can I put this... I got half way through act 1 and started looking for a way to create a custom party.

This game, OH MY WORD! This is how building your party should be done! It's not possible to make everyone happy with a hand full of story characters that are the focus of the game. The way this is done, letting you build a group that fits what you want! MIND BLOWN! I LOVE IT! For me, this is going to become my gold standard for cparty creation, just the best!

[eRe4s3r]

You are not wrong ;) But the companions of BG3 are the "evil" ones because Larian (correctly) assumed nobody would play them otherwise, so to test them in first phase of EA they made sure they are the only choice and will remain so for a while. There will be twice as many companions in final game from what I heard covering neutral -> good personalities.

And yeah, I had the same experience as you when I came to this game after trying out BG3 (on GoG though... and blergh, no thanks 25gb sized patches every few weeks is not fun), building proper party that is optimized to work together is a lot more fun.. especially when you at least half-way know what you are doing in 5.1 SRD vs 5e

BG3 will get custom party creation on release from what I heard*

[deepgreenbear]

Yeah, I've herd the companions in BG3 are supposed to be the "evil" ones. I'm hopeful that they will have some I click with. Though it is good to hear they are considering a custom party option instead of the multi player work around (it is kind of a bother). I was just so presently surprised with how this game was so unique.

I will also say that this game has a lot of charm to it in other ways as well. I'm excited to play with it more and it's filling a much desired gap while I wait for BG3 to get a little further along. I feel like my money was well spent on this game!

[Aldain]

Yeah, I actually like BG3 and even I can agree the current party members are just the worst.

I made a full custom party and actually got more enjoyment out of thinking up 4 backstories than hearing Shadowheart whine again and again about god knows what or Lae'zel loudly proclaim how superior she is to everyone else.

The worst part is some people actually (and I hate using this word) simp for those characters, despite being written in the worst way possible of "worst foot forward first".

Nobody is going to invest in a character if the first things you hear out of their mouth is whiny confrontational BS.

[Silverquick]

Mine was moreso because it just didn't feel like either D&D or Forgotten Realms.

It felt more like some Planescape campaign or a Star Trek adventure not a D&D one and definitely not Baldur's Gate.

Honestly It was just so far away from it I lost interest. And that's outside of the fact I completely disliked the Henchmen.

Its not a bad game per se, its just not D&D or Baldur's Gate. But if you like Planescape campaigns or Spelljammer it will probably be ok for you, but probably not if you went there for what it claimed it was.

[eRe4s3r]

Originally posted by Silverquick:

Mine was moreso because it just didn't feel like either D&D or Forgotten Realms.

It felt more like some Planescape campaign or a Star Trek adventure not a D&D one and definitely not Baldur's Gate.

Honestly It was just so far away from it I lost interest. And that's outside of the fact I completely disliked the Henchmen.

Its not a bad game per se, its just not D&D or Baldur's Gate. But if you like Planescape campaigns or Spelljammer it will probably be ok for you.

Avernus in 5e has very little to do with the DnD you maybe know of past games so that is definitely a pretty big upfront thing to accept especially the absolute overload of tieflings and gith, angels vs devils vs daemons and planar travel. Took me a while, but I really liked it once I got used to it. It's different, and that's fine for me. And there is no way to judge BG3 yet. We don't know half the characters nor companions. And since they are part of areas, the companions can 100% shape where the story and your own experience of it can go.

Either way, obviously Solasta is the first one released and the first one I will legit play to completion. So I am hyped either way, so much choice, so many RPG's coming and that is never a bad thing.

[deepgreenbear]

Yeah it's weird. I've posted about how just terrible the NPC;'s in BG3 are and gotten flamed for it. I mean the lizard women is the fantasy equivalent of a white supremacist and I'm supposed enjoy being in a group with her? And Shadow Heart, i even tried to just skip her entirely but she shows up in my camp talking about voices in her heard telling her to find me... ummm... that's gonna be a hard pass for me! LOL! I could go on...

But I will say the art assets in BG3 are outstanding! And as the commented above mentioned, if you can get past the first 20 mins or so of the game away from the scifi/fantasy mash up they have going at the start it does get to feeling a lot more like a traditional sword and board RPG. Really my only complaint so far is the NPC's.

Now I will say that I really hope SOLASTA takes off and gets some real traction because it really has a lot going for it! The art assets seem a bit sub par at places (the characters look a little bit like they are molded out of clay for example) but over all i am really enjoying this game!

[Wantoomany]

I just love the logic behind putting those characters out first. They know they are awful, they acknowledge most people won't want to play with them. So their solution is to force early access players to use them, because there is no other alternative.

You would think that if early access is a tease to get more people interested in buying the game. You would not lead with play these awful characters.

[Silverquick]

Originally posted by Wantoomany:

I just love the logic behind putting those characters out first. They know they are awful, they acknowledge most people won't want to play with them. So their solution is to force early access players to use them, because there is no other alternative.

You would think that if early access is a tease to get more people interested in buying the game. You would not lead with play these awful characters.

There's a lot of that in it unfortunately...

A Gith acting like that is normal in D&D. But shes a little overly abrasive even when common sense tells you it would be a bad idea. A Gith would still hide their true feelings in that situation unless they're a complete moron.

However... I really had a problem with them trying to shove the gay stuff on you though.
I don't see gay/lez as anything other than another fetish, no different than S&M or Golden Showers, and I get that some people have their preferences.
....But shoveling it on you and in your face stuff doesn't magically and mystically make people accept or love it... it just turns them off. Which I suspect had a much larger impact than their devs think. And the idea of sex with the Lizard Lady turned me off as well.

But that wasn't the only thing.

Shadowheart... the skill checks to even GET to know her are sooo high that no normal character will ever pass them. She's a total ice queen, which really turns you off. Even when you save scum to pass them, it doesn't get any better. Underneath she's like one of those Antifa Fascists that burns peoples homes down because they don't "do what they're told" or think the way they want them to think. So even when you get to know her she's trouble and someone I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.

The Warlock: Don't even remember his name, but he seemed like an ok guy but too much of a glory hound. Still I was ok with him.... IF it weren't for the fact my first play through was with a Warlock so didn't need one in the party... and the second time it was with an Eldritch Knight so prefered a Wizard in Party instead of a Warlock. So never got to know this one. If his actual class would have been a Fighter of some kind as an alternate to the Gith I'd have taken him in a heartbeat.

The Vampire: Fascinating backstory, but he's a vampire that tried to suck my blood. He's just damn lucky I didn't have a Thief in Party or I would have thrown him out on the spot... throw in, shoving the Gay stuff, and I just couldn't even stand to be around him. It was a double ewwww.

Gale: Actually didn't mind this guy, yeah he was total metero male but I dug the 80s hairstyle, But.... all the while I was thinking... Oh my god this guy is a total p*sy, but a hilarious one even when he doesn't know it. His lines were unintentionally funny.
"If I don't get some rest soon, I am going to become quite disagreeable"....
LOL oh don't scare me like that p*sy, I might accidentally snicker... errrm I mean umm.. shake in my shoes...
Like I said the guy was unintentionally hilarious. The Artifact hunger thing though was really overdone and needed to be choked back a lot.

[Aldain]

Originally posted by Silverquick:

Shadowheart... the skill checks to even GET to know her are sooo high that no normal character will ever pass them. She's a total ice queen, which really turns you off. Even when you save scum to pass them, it doesn't get any better.

I can't agree with that enough, she's all the worst parts of a poorly written ice queen.

...Why anyone even remotely tolerates her is anyone's guess...then I look at Resident Evil 8 and am convinced 90% of the world is just horny idiots.

[bbii]

One thing I love about this game is it is making your own custom party. You can make any combo you feel. These are the types of games I like. I mean I go back to old Wizardry, Might & Magic, and even Pool of Radiance games.

I like BG3 and I don't mind evil companions but there is a difference between having evil companions and likable companions. I hate how some people think being a jerk means a character is well written and complex. Like the only two answers are being a jerk or being a wimp.

[eRe4s3r]

Originally posted by Wantoomany:

I just love the logic behind putting those characters out first. They know they are awful, they acknowledge most people won't want to play with them. So their solution is to force early access players to use them, because there is no other alternative.

You would think that if early access is a tease to get more people interested in buying the game. You would not lead with play these awful characters.

Well how else you gonna test how the game works when players are rarely if ever going the EVIL route? There was a huge one-shot (more like 7 shot) DnD campaign from Dimension 20 where a bunch of really awesome DnD players played EVIL characters in an evil setting, and it ended with a group hug (an evil one hah) in game .. in an altar room with a blood pool and skeletal murder-death boatmen. Not even joking. The players were playing evil, but their characters weren't evil ;P

This is what will always happen in social games like DnD, so you can't ever test it properly as a developer if you want to break out of this mold. If only 1 in 1000 pick these 3 party members that we get first in EA right now then how would you ever balance or find bugs for them ? It needs mass eyes on it and it worked out fine. ;) Whenever BG3 is done I will give it a real playthrough. With the GITH especially because I wonder where that story leads, where it leads in BG3 EA right now is one of the absolute most insanely toughest fights in the entire game. And I do love a challenge in games like these.

I have to force myself to play evil in DnD games and I don't think I am good at being evil in them (hah) only game where It was fun was Pa... Paath... Pillars of Eternity 2 - and only because every faction in that setting was downright comically evil and at best passive-aggressively neutral... oh well ;)

I do wonder if Solasta even offers any "evil" choices at all when it releases

[RJM]

In Solasta you have full control of all your characters, so their personalities are relatively shallow and never meaningfully conflict with each other (or get romantic).

In BG3 you are 1 player character + companions. I find the BG3 "evil" companions quite plausible and ok to have in the party, in the same way I accommodate work colleagues and get on with them at work even though I'd never invite them round my house or go do stuff with them at the weekends. BG1 & 2 had its share of oddball characters that I'd not choose to party with, so this is nothing out of character for the game series. I got heartily sick of Minsc and his bleeping hamster too.

For those who don't like the BG3 abrasive personalities, there will be other choices come full release. There is also a method for creating your own full party Solasta-style and not having any party friction if that's what you prefer.

[deepgreenbear]

Originally posted by RJM:

In Solasta you have full control of all your characters, so their personalities are relatively shallow and never meaningfully conflict with each other (or get romantic).

In BG3 you are 1 player character + companions. I find the BG3 "evil" companions quite plausible and ok to have in the party, in the same way I accommodate work colleagues and get on with them at work even though I'd never invite them round my house or go do stuff with them at the weekends. BG1 & 2 had its share of oddball characters that I'd not choose to party with, so this is nothing out of character for the game series. I got heartily sick of Minsc and his bleeping hamster too.

For those who don't like the BG3 abrasive personalities, there will be other choices come full release. There is also a method for creating your own full party Solasta-style and not having any party friction if that's what you prefer.

Yeah, I'm not saying the BG3 characters as they stand are poorly written or inconsistent with the setting and or story. I'm just saying I don't want to play with them. At all... even a little bit... So much so that I'm enjoying the game more playing with a multi player made custom group that is full of characters I'm role playing myself. So yeah... SOLASTA just cuts out the middle man LOL!

[Wantoomany]

Originally posted by eRe4s3r:

I do wonder if Solasta even offers any "evil" choices at all when it releases

Honestly, I hope not. Being evil rarely works in CRPGs, mainly because villains are generally proactive and heroes are generally reactive. So its very easy to provide quests, adventures, or motivation for a heroic party to react to some great evil and vanquish it. Conversely, evil parties are more prone to doing their own thing, rather then just accepting a job or quest. It ends up being much harder to provide motivation and content to an evil party that doesn't just end up with them being just a bunch of murder hobos. The more subtle evil acts like double crosses, manipulation, or power grabs, all have to be accounted for and baked into the game. Even if such options are provided, they by their nature, often end up being very linear or just devolve into optional dialog choices. As such, rarely being very satisfying.

Its why I feel BG3 missed the mark, they got so hung up in providing evil and good characters they seemed to have missed just providing well written or entertaining characters.

[Who?]

I hate BG3 because of is banning any voice that criticize abnormal design, no day night, 7 color abnormal and unisex female character. Look at Dota 2 film, even muscle luna is better than that "female" elf.