Point Buy vs. Rolling Stats

[Acadiantri]

With point buy, my characters will likely have 16s in their two main stat and a 14 in a third. With repeated rolling, I can easily and have those stats be two 18s and a 16 (or I can just set all my stats to 20, yes I know). My questions how much stronger is a party with characters with 18/18/16 in their three main stats than a party with characters with 16/16/14? +1 on to hit and damage or AC looks 5% better, but my guess is that the rolled party will be 10-20% stronger in practice from hitting more often, doing more damage, getting hit less often, and having more hps combined. Thoughts?

[bobo.94]

Originally posted by Cartesian Duelist:

Originally posted by bobo.94:

You can also continue to defend without arguing the practice of indiscriminate rerolling, but no DM would allow INFINITE stat rerolles (or at least I have never seen them), without forgetting that rerolling indefinitely only serves to obtain higher scores than those provided both by the regulation and (above all) by the mathematics of the game which does not allow bonuses greater than +5 before the 4th level (+3 from the statistics and +2 from the possible competence). That said, good for you if you can still have fun while knowing that you get a whole host of perks ahead of time :) Even in Baldur's Gate you could roll endlessly to get 95+ total stats, as well as use a program to set all stats to 18 and get 18/00.

And you can carry on claiming some sort of moral high ground. I don't think anyone really cares at this point.

PS - what's with the emojis? Are they supposed to mean something? ;)

Nah not claiming but stating objective things

[Cartesian Duelist]

Originally posted by bobo.94:

by the regulation and (above all) by the mathematics of the game which does not allow bonuses greater than +5 before the 4th level (+3 from the statistics and +2 from the possible competence).

This is objectively false.

On page 13 of the 5e PHB you'll find this:
"You generate your character's six ability scores randomly. Roll four 6-sided dice and record the total of the highest three dice on a piece of scratch paper. Do this five more times, so that you have six numbers. If you want to save time or don't like the idea of randomly determining ability scores, you can use the following scores instead: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8."

Also on page 13 you will find this:
"VARIANT: CUSTOMIZING ABILITY SCORES
At your Dungeon Master's option, you can use this variant for determining ability scores. The method described here allows you to build a character with a set of ability scores you choose individually.
You have 27 points to spend on your ability scores. The cost of each scores is shown on the Ability Score Point Cost table."

If you want to talk about what's objectively true, you should probably know it first. The primary way to generate stats is to roll. Rolling may very well lead to a character with a rolled 18 + 2 for race bonus in a stat.

[Kasa]

Man, I remember the last time I didn't follow the rules in the DMG / PHP, the D&D police came to my house and threw me in prison for 6 months.

Lean'rd me real good to try and play a game of make believe with my friends without following a rigid strict guide!

[bobo.94]

Originally posted by Cartesian Duelist:

Originally posted by bobo.94:

by the regulation and (above all) by the mathematics of the game which does not allow bonuses greater than +5 before the 4th level (+3 from the statistics and +2 from the possible competence).

This is objectively false.

On page 13 of the 5e PHB you'll find this:
"You generate your character's six ability scores randomly. Roll four 6-sided dice and record the total of the highest three dice on a piece of scratch paper. Do this five more times, so that you have six numbers. If you want to save time or don't like the idea of randomly determining ability scores, you can use the following scores instead: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8."

Also on page 13 you will find this:
"VARIANT: CUSTOMIZING ABILITY SCORES
At your Dungeon Master's option, you can use this variant for determining ability scores. The method described here allows you to build a character with a set of ability scores you choose individually.
You have 27 points to spend on your ability scores. The cost of each scores is shown on the Ability Score Point Cost table."

If you want to talk about what's objectively true, you should probably know it first. The primary way to generate stats is to roll. Rolling may very well lead to a character with a rolled 18 + 2 for race bonus in a stat.

You are right, but I find nothing about the indiscriminate reroll which aims solely and exclusively to obtain scores significantly higher than any other method. You roll 6 times (one per characteristic) and you keep them. END. Clearly you CAN reroll the statistics indefinitely, but it's clearly a method to circumvent the normal limits.

[Cartesian Duelist]

Originally posted by bobo.94:

Clearly you CAN reroll the statistics indefinitely, but it's clearly a method to circumvent the normal limits.

And what are the normal limits?

[Grumpy Old Dude]

Originally posted by Kasa:

Man, I remember the last time I didn't follow the rules in the DMG / PHP, the D&D police came to my house and threw me in prison for 6 months.

Lean'rd me real good to try and play a game of make believe with my friends without following a rigid strict guide!

^todays internetz winner!

[bobo.94]

Originally posted by Cartesian Duelist:

Originally posted by bobo.94:

Clearly you CAN reroll the statistics indefinitely, but it's clearly a method to circumvent the normal limits.

And what are the normal limits?

You are really funny, but I'll answer anyway. Normal limits (as written or played in D&D events) = roll your stats and keep what comes out, or evenly distribute the available points according to your preferences.

[Grinnar]

Fun fact. The book says if you don't have at least one 15, you should reroll.

[Cartesian Duelist]

Originally posted by bobo.94:

Normal limits (as written or played in D&D events) = roll your stats and keep what comes out, or evenly distribute the available points according to your preferences.

Where are these normal limits written?

Evenly distribute the available points or distribute the available points according to your preferences? Those two are mutually exclusive.

[bobo.94]

Originally posted by Cartesian Duelist:

Originally posted by bobo.94:

Normal limits (as written or played in D&D events) = roll your stats and keep what comes out, or evenly distribute the available points according to your preferences.

Where are these normal limits written?

Evenly distribute the available points or distribute the available points according to your preferences? Those two are mutually exclusive.

You reroll for obvious reasons if you rolled SO LOW, according to the math of the game itself.
Distributing the available points according to your preferences is OBVIOUSLY intended for the point buy system. You can find all this stuff in the first pages of the manual

[Grumpy Old Dude]

good gawd

[Cartesian Duelist]

Originally posted by bobo.94:

You reroll for obvious reasons if you rolled SO LOW, according to the math of the game itself.

Where would I go to find the math of the game itself?

Originally posted by bobo.94:

Distributing the available points according to your preferences is OBVIOUSLY intended for the point buy system.

Then why did you mention evenly distributing the available points?

Originally posted by bobo.94:

You can find all this stuff in the first pages of the manual

I know what I can find in the first pages of the manual, I have it. It's why I was able to pull quotes directly from it. Which I must say is something you have yet to do.

[bbii]

Let's see if this will finally solve the issue.
People on both sides will say the DM can allow these things in a tabletop game. If they allow it then no on really cares about a house rule.
In this game TA is the DM. They are allowing
Point Buy
Unlimited Point Buy
Standard Array
Rolling with a reroll button you can push as many times as you want. It is even an achievement you can get.

So since they allow it then it is OK.

[peterh80]

Originally posted by bobo.94:

Rolling stats numerous times is basically a cheat

You should try the Wizardy series if you feel this way, and soon you will realize that rerolling is a God-given human right :-)

[Grinnar]

I think this should be a "worry less about how others play their single player game experience" type of thing.