Multi-Attack-Enemys

[TheLuckyAce]

Hey,
I'm somewhat new to the DnD rules (played some RPGs made with the rules and some p&p rounds but not much at all and never got deep into the rules) and I try to understand why Enemies can do so many attacks per round (or NPCs you get).
For example a "Veteran" guys in a Trading Caravan Fight (Story thing) hits with his Longsword, than with the Shortsword and than again with the Longsword into the Shortsword... made it four attacks per round. Found several other Enemys who can do the same even with switching weapons. (Longsword attacks were made 2h-ed)

While I seem not to be able to do the same on lvl6 at all. Okay I have only a Battle Cleric which can do real melee (and a Bard but I use him as a range) or my Spirit Tiger but even with rolling around in the character editor at a new Game I seem not to get why the NPC/Enemy can do so many hits per round on around lvl6, as I assume that they are not get rolled out with lvl12 or something when I'm 6, would made hitting them absurd hard I guess?

Any short or long explanation why this works? And can it be done with Player Characters as well?

[DiceWrangler]

Veterans emulate what a 5th level Fighter can do: They attack twice with their primary weapon, once with their off-hand weapon and can Action Surge once / encounter. They cheat, as NPCs sometimes do (legally) , because they switch weapons twice each round.

[Dallas S]

Monsters aren't characters with classes. They get their own rules individual to each monster. On the flip side, they don't get all the abilities your class characters do, they get a set few abilities and that's it.

[Ommamar]

This is where control spells can really shine. Grease or Entangle so they can't get to you, slow is another good one specifically for this issue. Fear is good although it can lead you to chasing them around sometimes. Things like blind give them disadvantage making them less likely to hit you no matter how many swings they get.

[Soteria]

I think Veterans should be vulnerable to Heat Metal as well.

[TheLuckyAce]

Originally posted by Ommamar:

This is where control spells can really shine. Grease or Entangle so they can't get to you, slow is another good one specifically for this issue. Fear is good although it can lead you to chasing them around sometimes. Things like blind give them disadvantage making them less likely to hit you no matter how many swings they get.

They are not a problem. I can control them well, most times they are sitting at my Tank and missing everything every round. I just wanted to understand why they can do 4+ attacks every turn, including weapon changes etc. ;)

Thanks for the answers, so basically its "because they are NPC and can do things the Player cant do.". Sad.

I hoped that enemy's are more bound to the rules... in the campaigns I played (and the one I helped creating) enemy's always where created with the rulebook's at hand, just slightly adjusted in stats etc. or giving the option to select a skill earlier but not straight up just cheat.

[Zyrrashijn]

There's no cheating necessary. As mentioned, several classes gain additional attacks at certain levels. Your battlecleric will do so at some point. Fighters also have the "Action Surge" ability that lets them take additional actions once per short rest. Humanoid NPCs follow the same rules that PCs follow.

[Dallas S]

Originally posted by TheLuckyAce:

Originally posted by Ommamar:

This is where control spells can really shine. Grease or Entangle so they can't get to you, slow is another good one specifically for this issue. Fear is good although it can lead you to chasing them around sometimes. Things like blind give them disadvantage making them less likely to hit you no matter how many swings they get.

They are not a problem. I can control them well, most times they are sitting at my Tank and missing everything every round. I just wanted to understand why they can do 4+ attacks every turn, including weapon changes etc. ;)

Thanks for the answers, so basically its "because they are NPC and can do things the Player cant do.". Sad.

I hoped that enemy's are more bound to the rules... in the campaigns I played (and the one I helped creating) enemy's always where created with the rulebook's at hand, just slightly adjusted in stats etc. or giving the option to select a skill earlier but not straight up just cheat.

It's not cheating. In dnd 5e all NPCs have their own individual stat blocks, they don't have classes like the players, they can do whatever their stat block says.

That's following the rulebook. The NPCs also don't get nearly the same abilities as players as the trade off.

[cookie]

paladins, fighters , and barbarians , haste them , paladin can haste himself and still smite , use potions to avoid using up a concentration on the spell caster(s)- battle clerics dont get extra attacks any time soon , try a monk if you want extra attacks

[Cutlass Jack]

You should hear what the NPCs say about us cheating over on their forums...

[Dallas S]

Originally posted by Zyrrashijn:

There's no cheating necessary. As mentioned, several classes gain additional attacks at certain levels. Your battlecleric will do so at some point. Fighters also have the "Action Surge" ability that lets them take additional actions once per short rest. Humanoid NPCs follow the same rules that PCs follow.

No they don't. NPCs and monsters aren't characters with classes. They get their own separate rules. Like they aren't subject to death saves, when they get 0 hp they die, for example.

NPCs don't get abilities like "extra attack". Many have something called "multi attack" which is completely different and doesn't fall under the same rules as extra attack. Enemies likewise don't get action surge.

Some examples:

Druids never get more than one attack. This druid does.
https://5e.tools/bestiary.html#frost%20druid_idrotf

This wizard makes 3 melee attacks or spell attacks with telekinetic bolt. Likewise their "spell slots" don't work like any class does.

https://5e.tools/bestiary.html#githyanki%20gish_mpmm

This dragonborn assassin gets sneak attack and multi attacks (rogues don't get multi attacks), while also having evasion (level 7 rogue ability, and two attacks would be a level 5 fighter ability, but this thing is in no way a level 12 enemy). Also this monster doesn't get action surge or second wind, which it would have if it was a level 5 fighter.
Also it's breath weapon recharges on a 5-6 roll, while player character dragonborn only get a breath weapon once a day.

https://5e.tools/bestiary.html#half-green%20dragon%20assassin_rot


My point is that NPCs and enemies are not characters with classes. They have their own abilities. There's a whole section for creating enemies in the dungeon Master guide and none of them use classes.

[Ceana of the Crags]

Yeah, that doesn't encourage me to play with harder rule sets. I go Scavenger, but that's about it. The vampires get legendary "attacks" or powers, three of them, over and over and over and over. Or, at least, the wench in that one castle did. Not once per encounter nor once per turn (I'm talking about 6 rounds = a turn). There were sometimes only 3 rounds in-between, as far as I could tell.

The enemy attacks are sometimes sane and other times insane. My 5th level fighter does not get 4 attacks per turn. My Monk gets 3 attacks some turns as of 3rd level, but some of the things I fight can do insane damage. I have the monster crit hits turned off, and STILL they will land a hit for 2.5 times the normal damage, so that seems to be broken in the settings.

The Monster Manual used to be a GREAT resource for information on monsters, BUT I'm not sure that humanoid enemies were included. I cannot remember and don't want to bother pulling it out.

Your point is that it is not well-balanced, and I agree with that point. No matter how much people want to protest that it is comparing apples and oranges, some monsters in the game are not well-balanced for the character levels fighting them, and let's face it, the main story line is very linear, as they tend to be, so you are guided from fight to fight. I have even been doing the board quests and other side-quests in-between.

HOWEVER, with all that written, remember that you can adjust the difficulty level in-game on-the-fly. So, if they get stupid hard, go into the settings and adjust them. Unlike many other games, this game does not seem to be awarding anything extra for playing on harder rule-settings.

[Dallas S]

Originally posted by Ceana of the Crags:

Yeah, that doesn't encourage me to play with harder rule sets. I go Scavenger, but that's about it. The vampires get legendary "attacks" or powers, three of them, over and over and over and over. Or, at least, the wench in that one castle did. Not once per encounter nor once per turn (I'm talking about 6 rounds = a turn). There were sometimes only 3 rounds in-between, as far as I could tell.

The enemy attacks are sometimes sane and other times insane. My 5th level fighter does not get 4 attacks per turn. My Monk gets 3 attacks some turns as of 3rd level, but some of the things I fight can do insane damage. I have the monster crit hits turned off, and STILL they will land a hit for 2.5 times the normal damage, so that seems to be broken in the settings.

The Monster Manual used to be a GREAT resource for information on monsters, BUT I'm not sure that humanoid enemies were included. I cannot remember and don't want to bother pulling it out.

Your point is that it is not well-balanced, and I agree with that point. No matter how much people want to protest that it is comparing apples and oranges, some monsters in the game are not well-balanced for the character levels fighting them, and let's face it, the main story line is very linear, as they tend to be, so you are guided from fight to fight. I have even been doing the board quests and other side-quests in-between.

HOWEVER, with all that written, remember that you can adjust the difficulty level in-game on-the-fly. So, if they get stupid hard, go into the settings and adjust them. Unlike many other games, this game does not seem to be awarding anything extra for playing on harder rule-settings.

Yeah that's called legendary actions. Boss creatures in 5e get them, they can do up to 3 of them per round (in between other turns), though some legendary actions burn 2 or 3 action slots.

[Cutlass Jack]

Legendary attacks is a major boss thing. Not an all vampire thing.

Honestly the thing I'm most jealous of that some NPCs get is Disengages as a bonus action. Getting to run in, do three attacks and still be able to run away absolutely makes it feel like cheating.

[DiceWrangler]

Originally posted by Ceana of the Crags:

The Monster Manual used to be a GREAT resource for information on monsters, BUT I'm not sure that humanoid enemies were included. I cannot remember and don't want to bother pulling it out.

Only lazy DMs use monsters as-written in the Monster Manual. Monsters listed there are supposed to just be archetypes of creatures and not definitive or comprehensive. That said, characters in the game world should know something about creatures they might (or have) encounter and Solasta's Bestiary is, essentially, the player's version of the Monster Manual.

[Morgian]

@OP
As Dicewrangler said, the fighters used their action surge. Surprise attacks by fighters are pretty much worse than dragons at lower levels due to that. Higher up they get 8 attacks, but you get way less surprised, making it less dangerous.