Why is unlearning spells a thing?

[:HIT: Rheves]

I'm only level 3 but I didn't realize unlearning spells was only optional when I hit level 2 and although I wanted to keep both my spells I unlearned one. When levelling up to 3 I saw that I could ignore it and chose to keep my spells instead.

I have no idea why this is an option though, will skipping the unlearn spell option bite me in the ass at higher levels? Should I always be unlearning spells when I level up for some reason?

I'm completely lost, any insight would be appreciated.

[Platostotle]

You can unlearn a spell in order to learn a new one. This can be useful when you gain access to new spell levels, and you want to trade up for the higher level spells, or you accidentally picked a spell you don't like, and just want to get rid of it for a new one.

[IgnatiusJ.Reilly]

Only unlearn the spell if you don't like it and would prefer to swap it for something else. Some spells you'll want to always keep, some spells you may swap out because they've lost efficacy. It's really up to you and what you need at the time, not mandatory.

[Agony_Aunt]

Sometimes you simply make bad choices with spells, so its a good time to get rid of spells you don't use/like.

[:HIT: Rheves]

So it sounds like there is a cap on the number of spells I can learn, is that right? I don't think I've hit that limit yet though.

[Agony_Aunt]

Originally posted by :HIT: Rheves:

So it sounds like there is a cap on the number of spells I can learn, is that right? I don't think I've hit that limit yet though.

There is a cap for some classes based off their spellcasting stat. Wizards can learn spells from scrolls though so they can learn more than allocated by levelling up.

[paolo.bera]

Originally posted by :HIT: Rheves:

I'm only level 3 but I didn't realize unlearning spells was only optional when I hit level 2 and although I wanted to keep both my spells I unlearned one. When levelling up to 3 I saw that I could ignore it and chose to keep my spells instead.

I have no idea why this is an option though, will skipping the unlearn spell option bite me in the ass at higher levels? Should I always be unlearning spells when I level up for some reason?

I'm completely lost, any insight would be appreciated.

Cause sometimes you want to remove shatter to learn fireball and another spell :)

[Cartesian Duelist]

Originally posted by :HIT: Rheves:

So it sounds like there is a cap on the number of spells I can learn, is that right? I don't think I've hit that limit yet though.

Yes, every class that has the option to unlearn spells has a limit on the number of spells that can be known.

[Ommamar]

Originally posted by Agony_Aunt:

Originally posted by :HIT: Rheves:

So it sounds like there is a cap on the number of spells I can learn, is that right? I don't think I've hit that limit yet though.

There is a cap for some classes based off their spellcasting stat. Wizards can learn spells from scrolls though so they can learn more than allocated by levelling up.

True it is also possible too fill a spell book, luckily you can find one on different merchants. One thing I missed from the BG series, although it was kind of cheesy, was the ability to delete then relearn spells.

[𒆜Nurse☩With☩Wound𒆜]

Yup like on my sorc.. at the current level you might want to pick up various spells.. But as you level up, an unlock the higher tier ones, the old ones are just meh.. so you unlearn an take something higher.. or based on situation..

[Sentient_Toaster]

Originally posted by :HIT: Rheves:

So it sounds like there is a cap on the number of spells I can learn, is that right? I don't think I've hit that limit yet though.

Yes, well, for some classes that is.

Clerics, for a counterexample, are prepared spell casters. At the end of a long rest they can choose a number of spells to have prepared, based on their spellcasting ability modifier (for clerics, Wisdom) and their cleric level. These spells will be the only ones they can cast the next day, but they can prepare any spell that is of sufficiently low level based on their Cleric level (third or less for a fifth-level Cleric, say) and that is on the Cleric spell list. Clerics also get domain-specific spell lists that are always prepared and don't count against the limit.

Wizards need to prepare spells as well, buuuuut they don't get to choose from the entire Wizard spell list but instead can prepare spells that they've added to their spellbooks. They start with six first-level spells, can add two more spells each level-up limited based on their wizard level (no, a Wizard-1 Cleric-19 cannot learn and prepare ninth-level Wizard spells), and if they find additional Wizard spells on spell scrolls or spellbooks, take the time and resources to scribe them. So, Wizards could theoretically learn every Wizard spell, but that would take a rather long campaign unless the DM is *extremely* generous.

Sorcerers, on the other hand, are known-spell casters. They learn spells as they level up, and *never* at any other time. Like, if a sorcerer finds a whole pile of spell scrolls containing spells on the sorcerer class list, he won't be able to learn them the way a Wizard could transcribe them into his books. Instead, he could only use the scrolls to cast spells. They don't get to switch out spells except when leveling up, either, and even then it's just one. There's no spell preparation; any spell that they know, is basically always available so long as they have appropriate spell slots. But they're much more stuck with their choices, and they get fewer spells known (*) than Wizards do for free without the ability to learn more. Swapping is helpful becomes some spells just fall off in utility at higher levels and spells you will never use again are effectively reducing your already low limit.


(*) Later subclasses narrow the gap a bit, like some 5E sorcerer subclasses *give* the additional spells as automatically known rather than "hey, here's more spells that you can burn your extremely limited spells-known count on". But, say, PHB sorcerers? A 20-th level draconic or wild magic sorcerer will know 15 leveled spells. A 20-th level wizard that has never, ever found a single spell scroll or spellbook, will have 44 leveled spells in his spellbook, also be able to prepare 25 leveled spells assuming 20 INT -- in other words, he will *prepare* almost double the spells than the sorcerer can even *know*, and "know" roughly triple what the sorcerer knows. I hope the sorcerer loves metamagic. *shrug*

[Chadwick Strongpants]

Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:

Wall of knowledge

Thanks for the thorough explaination mate, that's actually super helpful!

[KingMotley]

Also useful if you find say a wand of magic missile (staff of fire, boots of jumping, ring of sparkles), and you find that you don't use that spell very often, but you took it for the rare case that you needed it. But, now that you have that item, you'd rather swap out magic missile for something else.

[THAC0]

Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:

Originally posted by :HIT: Rheves:

So it sounds like there is a cap on the number of spells I can learn, is that right? I don't think I've hit that limit yet though.

Yes, well, for some classes that is.

Clerics, for a counterexample, are prepared spell casters. At the end of a long rest they can choose a number of spells to have prepared, based on their spellcasting ability modifier (for clerics, Wisdom) and their cleric level. These spells will be the only ones they can cast the next day, but they can prepare any spell that is of sufficiently low level based on their Cleric level (third or less for a fifth-level Cleric, say) and that is on the Cleric spell list. Clerics also get domain-specific spell lists that are always prepared and don't count against the limit.

Wizards need to prepare spells as well, buuuuut they don't get to choose from the entire Wizard spell list but instead can prepare spells that they've added to their spellbooks. They start with six first-level spells, can add two more spells each level-up limited based on their wizard level (no, a Wizard-1 Cleric-19 cannot learn and prepare ninth-level Wizard spells), and if they find additional Wizard spells on spell scrolls or spellbooks, take the time and resources to scribe them. So, Wizards could theoretically learn every Wizard spell, but that would take a rather long campaign unless the DM is *extremely* generous.

Sorcerers, on the other hand, are known-spell casters. They learn spells as they level up, and *never* at any other time. Like, if a sorcerer finds a whole pile of spell scrolls containing spells on the sorcerer class list, he won't be able to learn them the way a Wizard could transcribe them into his books. Instead, he could only use the scrolls to cast spells. They don't get to switch out spells except when leveling up, either, and even then it's just one. There's no spell preparation; any spell that they know, is basically always available so long as they have appropriate spell slots. But they're much more stuck with their choices, and they get fewer spells known (*) than Wizards do for free without the ability to learn more. Swapping is helpful becomes some spells just fall off in utility at higher levels and spells you will never use again are effectively reducing your already low limit.


(*) Later subclasses narrow the gap a bit, like some 5E sorcerer subclasses *give* the additional spells as automatically known rather than "hey, here's more spells that you can burn your extremely limited spells-known count on". But, say, PHB sorcerers? A 20-th level draconic or wild magic sorcerer will know 15 leveled spells. A 20-th level wizard that has never, ever found a single spell scroll or spellbook, will have 44 leveled spells in his spellbook, also be able to prepare 25 leveled spells assuming 20 INT -- in other words, he will *prepare* almost double the spells than the sorcerer can even *know*, and "know" roughly triple what the sorcerer knows. I hope the sorcerer loves metamagic. *shrug*

the thing is why you do know said spells its not like you need all the spells to make a good wizard or a good sorcerer, you can make good characters / wizards / sorcs with not a whole lot of spells given to them if your experience enough you know that you dont need that many spells
sometimes being able to cast all the spells dosnt mean you acouly can you limited to a # per day reguardless just coz you know em dosnt mean you prepared the right spell or the right number, maybe you needed 2 useage of color spray maybe color spray was useless
this is something the Sorc dosnt realy have to deal with he ALWAYS has his spells prepared yes he knows less of them but he ALWAYS has them and can cast them whenever he wants how many times he wants.
got only 4 useage of 1st level spells left? Sorc can divide that up however he wants whenever he wants a Wizard is limited on that if he only has 1 Color spray left in the bag he can only cast the 1 color spray normaly
Metamagic also GREATLY improves spells over-all

if you ask me a Sorc > Wizard over-all
yeah wizard sounds nice on paper but its more of a crap shoot in reality unless as you mention the DM is realy generous or plays favs or such.

[Cartesian Duelist]

Originally posted by THAC0:

got only 4 useage of 1st level spells left? Sorc can divide that up however he wants whenever he wants a Wizard is limited on that if he only has 1 Color spray left in the bag he can only cast the 1 color spray normaly

This isn't true in 5e. Wizards can prepare a certain number of spells across all the spell levels they have slots for. Once the spells are prepared, they can use as many spell slots for them as they like, just like Sorcerers. If a Wizard has 4 slots and Color Spray prepared, he can cast it however many times he likes up to 4. Memorizing the particular spells they wanted the number of times they wanted ended at 3.x.