Why can't the Paladin cast spells with a shield and sword but the Cleric can?

[Buzzerker]

I don't get that, I have to remove the shield so that the Paladin can cast his spells, but he can cast laying on of hands, turning the undead, etc..Paladin Centric spells, it makes no sense.

[Azure]

Only the Battle Cleric can due to its class feature that gives it that ability

[Ommamar]

Originally posted by Buzzerker:

I don't get that, I have to remove the shield so that the Paladin can cast his spells, but he can cast laying on of hands, turning the undead, etc..Paladin Centric spells, it makes no sense.

There are spells that require a free hand to make designs in the air, as mentioned there are some subclasses that allow you to cast with two full hands. For Paladins you can switch to your ranged weapon, use a two handed weapon, or even go into custom difficulty to turn that rule off.

[RbdPanda]

I don't understand how the new wizard class specifically designed around being a defensive caster that can use a shield doesn't gain the ability to cast with both hands full...

[Ommamar]

Originally posted by RbdPanda:

I don't understand how the new wizard class specifically designed around being a defensive caster that can use a shield doesn't gain the ability to cast with both hands full...

Try using the quarterstaff along with the shield.

[tazman1]

the issue is that in the PNP game Paladins can use their shields as holy symbols and the fact that you can use the same hand holding your focus to cast somatic components in this case the Paladins shield

[Ommamar]

Originally posted by tazman1:

the issue is that in the PNP game Paladins can use their shields as holy symbols and the fact that you can use the same hand holding your focus to cast somatic components in this case the Paladins shield

You can put a holy symbol on your shield by right clicking it, I don't think that gets you past the somatic component requirement though. While this game is a very close to a PNP session some of the rules in the default setup are different. They can be changed though if you don't want to deal with switching equipment around to use your spells.

[DiceWrangler]

Originally posted by tazman1:

the issue is that in the PNP game Paladins can use their shields as holy symbols and the fact that you can use the same hand holding your focus to cast somatic components in this case the Paladins shield

The holy symbol fulfills the material spell component requirement but not the somatic spell component.

[Aldain]

As a nice note, if you download the Community Expansion from the Nexus it has War Caster as a Feat option which will give you what you're looking for as well.

Along with a nice pool of other things.

[tazman1]

Originally posted by DiceWrangler:

Originally posted by tazman1:

the issue is that in the PNP game Paladins can use their shields as holy symbols and the fact that you can use the same hand holding your focus to cast somatic components in this case the Paladins shield

The holy symbol fulfills the material spell component requirement but not the somatic spell component.

CAN BE THE SAME HAND THAT HOLDS THE COMPONENT. Point Blank right there you can under the RULES use a shield with a holy symbol and cast spells that require somatic components.

The creators of the game even claimed that yes these Paladins and Clerics can do this.

[Brishan]

This is a matter of specific over general rules. Under the general rule you need a free hand under the specific rule regarding material components or spell focus's In the specific rule you may use the hand holding your spell focus or material component to do the somatic component in the rules as written in the PHB meaning if you can use your shield as a spell focus you can in fact cast while holding a sword and shield this was confirmed as how it is supposed to work by devs during a Q&A session. It's like the battle mage that gets a shield using a staff in their primary hand because a staff can be used as a spell focus allowing them to cast with both hands full.

[Sentient_Toaster]

Originally posted by tazman1:

CAN BE THE SAME HAND THAT HOLDS THE COMPONENT. Point Blank right there you can under the RULES use a shield with a holy symbol and cast spells that require somatic components.

This only applies to spells which have both material and somatic components. If a spell only has somatic components, the fact that the shield is a holy symbol is completely irrelevant. A V,S or S spell needs a free hand w/o War Caster or equivalent.

[tazman1]

Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:

Originally posted by tazman1:

CAN BE THE SAME HAND THAT HOLDS THE COMPONENT. Point Blank right there you can under the RULES use a shield with a holy symbol and cast spells that require somatic components.

This only applies to spells which have both material and somatic components. If a spell only has somatic components, the fact that the shield is a holy symbol is completely irrelevant. A V,S or S spell needs a free hand w/o War Caster or equivalent.

and most of the cleric and Paladin spells require: are you ready for this BOTH.

Thats right most of them require both therefore yes this does apply. The problem is that it does not work which defeats a core mechanic specifically designed for clerics and Paladins, in fact making the fact that they added the ability to etch your holy symbol into a shield irrelevant since there is no reason to do so.

EDIT: most cleric/paladin spells have either verbal or both. Verbal it does not matter if you don't have a free hand as per the rules on spell casting, somatic the rules clearly state they can be the same hand that holds the focus.

Also then explain to me why a verbal only spell like the smite spells (not the ability) can't be cast by a Paladin wielding a shield.