Dungeon Crafting

[Kasa]

I just started using the dungeon maker and had a few questions:

1: Since Solasta is using D&D 5e is the exp per level the same? I.E. 300, 900, 2,700, ect?

2: Are CR's the same? A single skeletal enforcer is listed as a CR 2 (Hard) but core 5e lists CR 2 (450) exp for 4 level 1's as "Deadly". So it's hard to make balanced encounters without a lot of balance testing which is time consuming.

As for testing in general well yes it's important to due it's still pretty important to be able to eyeball encounters from the stat page first so that you don't have to meticulously test it every time you make a change.

[psychotron666]

1. As far as I know, yes.

2. CR is pretty much meaningless in DND. I've had my parties steamroll through "deadly" encounters or have a harder time with medium or hard encounters for instance. DND basically relies on a good dm to balance on the fly. This is one of the main reasons multi classing isn't included in solasta, because it's too hard to balance as a video game

My motto as a DM is that almost every combat encounter should be "deadly". You're fighting for your life every time you fight to kill. Players should always fear for their lives in any scenario they are in fight to kill encounters.

Anyway, in game terms unfortunately there's no good system for auto balancing encounters, simply put the best way is trial and error and testing yourself.

[lastrati]

I built my series using listed CR's balanced to party levels, and it plays out a bit too easy.

Silverquick built his series with over the top encounters, but if hit each one fully rested, they can be overcome just fine.

There is some sweet spot in between. "By the book" is too low a challenge it seems. But how much tougher one needs to make things will take time to figure out.


Plus there are play style differences (If I have to long rest after every encounter, I see that as a "fail" because in tabletop play, I as the DM, am having the monsters react and the players are losing the element of surprise).

And party configuration differences, and monster grouping synergies that stretch the CR and encounter rating systems🤷

Design something, play with it, and I'll be happy to run through and provide feedback.

Iron sharpens iron.

[Kasa]

I don't think like that, my style of DMing is encounters (fights or otherwise) should be exciting and fun. If every single encounter is deadly then it gets exhausting and stressful to actually PLAY the game.

That said you are also incorrect about CR's being meaningless, are they perfect? Oh hell no, but they are useful as a tool to eyeball encounter crafting.

Especially in 5e where encounters are weighted on a exp budget to help set up encounters.
For example a spy is a CR 1 which means an average encounter for a group of 4 level 1 adventurers and when they beat it should get 50 exp each.

Now this works out mathematically but since CR's don't account for action economy this "average" encounter is actually an "easy" encounter since the party gets to go 4 times for every 1 time the spy gets to go.

This is why you calculate action economy as well as CR into your encounters and experience as a DM comes in.
In this case a singular skeleton is "easy" encounter and loses in action economy so I add in a few more monsters to "balance" the action economy and difficulty.

I know by 5e rules that a typical Medium encounter should be around 200 exp and that when determining the exp to rate an encounter (not the exp the party receives but the exp that encounter represents difficulty wise) you add in an exp multiplier of of .5 (50%) for every additional monster.

So 1 skeleton is 12 exp each (50 exp cost budget wise) and a CR 1/4 creature

2 skeletons are 24 exp (exp budget is at 150 since 50+50 = 100 x 1.5 = 150)

and 3 skeletons are are 37 exp each ( budget is now 300 since 50+50+50 = 150 x 2 = 300)

From this we can tell the encounter is stronger then a medium encounter but from experience we know 3 skeletons are about an even match for 4 adventurers and relitvily even in action economy with a slight advantage to the party to make it a balanced medium encounter.
If I wanted to ensure the encounter was "safer" I would use a cr 1/8 instead of another skeleton.

So in conclusion, CR and in return exp budgets do have a meaning and are helpful in encounter planning.

[Kasa]

Obviously there are gonna be limitations since this is a computer game and can't account for and adjust for the party as they play, but it's still useful for desighn.

As lastrati mentioned Silverquick's encounters are over the top and you basically need to bring 100% of your resources to every fight and long rest after in order to actually survive the next encounter.

I'm aiming to see if I can do something closer to the old GBA eye of the beholder, 1 long dungeon going ever deeper in till you reach the source of evil.
Ideally I would like my players to be able to get through several encounters before needing to run all the way back to the campsite to rest.

It would be better if there was a way for the party to long rest w/e they needed but since Solasta doesn't have encounter respawns and wandering monsters we need to make due =/

[Silverquick]

For me?

Well I've kinda been doing it a very long time, so I already know or have memorized the approximate AC, Hit Points, and Attacks of a Monster.

They do change from edition to edition, but never enough to be unrecognizable, they are always somewhat close.

I measure hit dice vs party level,
Character Hit Points vs total attack damage
Special Attacks.

Secondly generally characters are much stronger than the CR they're supposedly balanced against and can handle much greater challenges than the CR indicates. While there are exceptions like creatures with special attacks that can kill, they are the exception rather than the rule.

My encounter schemes are generally guaged around 1st Edition or AD&D, So they tend to come out like the Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale encounter schemes. 1st edition was about being swarmed by monsters. Its not just the party teaming up on one monster. Though the monsters in those encounter schemes are generally lower level than you, hence, their numbers.

[Dog's Life]

the CR is just a simple glance gauge.
an encounter takes in more than just a difficulty of the mobs.
i had my level 2 thief take out a pack of 4 ghouls (which shld be impossible if met head to head) but i have my thief at mid bow range with dark vision. managed successfully to snipe 1 by 1 (even if i lose my hide.. i just use thief extra action to rehide behind a wall)
it really boils down to the terrain and strategy u are employing.
If the above encounter was in an area with a lot of pillars i would probably fail due to no LOS and hence enforcing a head to head encounter.
if my thief wasnt an elven with no darkvision, it would be hard for me to do the above as well.
so there really is a lot more to encounters than just pure output damage.
i have designed a few dungeons and even the direction which u put the mob facing matters a lot and can give advantages or disadvantages.