Sorcerer looks like weak wizard and self penalty

[Dorok]

The sorcerer not played but created and level up to 10 looks quit like a crap wizard no matter the 3 specialization.

It's clearly no old Sorcerer with a wide choice of spell, some mor spells to learn along level up, and significantly more spells slots. So it seems now the only point of Sorcerer are a lot of nerf in exchange of sorcerer points, but frankly it's hard figure how they can justify the nerfs.

[Ommamar]

"people are overrating spell versatility in a combat-only game"-The Crimson

Except there are situations specifically developed to utilize spells like jump, spider climb, misty step and fly, if your are a person who wants to get every little thing those spells will be important to you. There are 4 spell choices you lose if you choose to utilize a Sorcerer as your caster where with a Wizard you can slot them as needed then long rest to change your spell slots to your combat preferences. That is pretty powerful thing to have, as I have said Sorcerers even in the current state of being broken can be powerful in specific situations, where Wizards have more utility to adapt to what is needed.

I am not saying getting every craftable item is required to beat the game as you can get a long way just using the mundane starting stuff. Then there is the option of scrolls and potions (when they aren't in a bugged state) to cover discrepancies of a Sorcerers spell choices but with a Wizard that choice doesn't have to be made.

[Dorok]

The Crimson の投稿を引用：

ofc in tabletop wizards are better due to out of combat versatility

but it changes drastically in videogames tho, both here and in BG3 the ranger is the best melee class after paladin (and paladin is slightly better just cause of burst)

sorcerer is the best mage in solasta if you have identify covered

an even stronger mage than sorcerer would be warlock, even if all he does is spamming eldritch blast and short rest spells, people are overrating spell versatility in a combat-only game

Mmm, in BG2 Sorcerer hasn't so many spells forbiden if any, and was using already the more free spell slots of 5e unlike BG2 wizard, and had more direct spell points. In 5e wizard get the more free spell point system, and have the same mount of spell points. This let only sorc points to counter ballance and eventually subclasses.

When sorcerer will be fixed, what spells list would make it clearly stronger than a wizard and which sorcerer type? 11 spells for 10 levels isn't a lot so what's the selection for Solasta? Or what will be the selection. And what party with sorcerer and no wizard?

[Ghost]

sorc is strong.. you can build it to 28 AC w/o a melee weapon and cast things like twinned haste, greater invis, dominate monster.. with extra bonuses from specializations

[The Crimson]

Ommamar の投稿を引用：

Except there are situations specifically developed to utilize spells like jump, spider climb, misty step and fly, if your are a person who wants to get every little thing those spells will be important to you. There are 4 spell choices you lose if you choose to utilize a Sorcerer as your caster where with a Wizard you can slot them as needed then long rest to change your spell slots to your combat preferences.

just take misty step+spider climb and trade them off when you get fly, then it's just one spell taken

Dorok の投稿を引用：

11 spells for 10 levels isn't a lot so what's the selection for Solasta?

you get 16 spells in solasta and basically metamagic is the 'plus' of the class that can offset the lack of versatility

[Dorok]

2 spells at creation, 1 spell per level up, 10 spells at level 10 plus cantrips.

Take misty step and spider climb? Sure 2/5 spells at level 4.

If there's more spells, not when level up at character creation panel.

[Snefru]

And I believe my draconian sorc gets misty step as a class spell so not choosing it (for better or worse). I personally never use misty step in battle and only a few chests so nice but I’d never chose it on my own. I haven’t leveled to level 10 yet but maybe the 16 spells includes the class spells they get? So not choosing 16 but total may be correct? I can check when near my pc. I just wanna play a frost mage so cold sorc fits that roleplay better. I like the metamagic as it makes it more interesting to me. So think it just comes down to personal preference and playstyle. I never choose a class because it’s more powerful, just choose what I like and will be fun for me.

[Dorok]

Ha ok there are auto learned spells, oops. :-)

[The Crimson]

Sparkle の投稿を引用：

So not choosing 16 but total may be correct?

you can change draconic spells when you get new spells (all free spells that are on sorcerer list can be replaced, so no guiding bolt/entange/barkskin but misty step can be removed)

[Something completely different]

rumpelstiltskin の投稿を引用：

it's 5e wizard's payback for years of sorcerer domination

Twinned spell. My sorcerer is extremely popular with the group since she tosses around double improved invisible spells, haste spells and polymorphs.

Haven't played a sorc in Solastra yet though so no idea what's in the game there and what's not.

[PXR5]

Something completely different の投稿を引用：

rumpelstiltskin の投稿を引用：

it's 5e wizard's payback for years of sorcerer domination

Twinned spell. My sorcerer is extremely popular with the group since she tosses around double improved invisible spells, haste spells and polymorphs.

Haven't played a sorc in Solastra yet though so no idea what's in the game there and what's not.

Yeah and then they need to go look for an expert to identify the loot, or cast something different than the 11 spells and 6 cantrips that you know at lvl 10, I guess?

[Frostfeather]

Bak Bon Dzshow の投稿を引用：

Something completely different の投稿を引用：

Twinned spell. My sorcerer is extremely popular with the group since she tosses around double improved invisible spells, haste spells and polymorphs.

Haven't played a sorc in Solastra yet though so no idea what's in the game there and what's not.

Yeah and then they need to go look for an expert to identify the loot, or cast something different than the 11 spells and 6 cantrips that you know at lvl 10, I guess?

I'm not really understanding the obsession over Identify. It's not hard to have the spell in your group from someone else or pay for Identification. And I think my Sorcerer ended up using a greater spell variety than my Wizard over the course of the game.

Twinned spells are very strong and far outweighs not having Identify. At the end of my current run, my Mana Painter was my mvp by a fair margin, even more useful than my Shock Arcanist. Because even though she did a little less damage vs the Arcanist (she did more than I thought she would), she was constantly providing Advantage/Disadvantage and/or Twinned buffs and the value of those was much greater than a little difference in direct damage.

[PXR5]

night4 の投稿を引用：

Bak Bon Dzshow の投稿を引用：

Yeah and then they need to go look for an expert to identify the loot, or cast something different than the 11 spells and 6 cantrips that you know at lvl 10, I guess?

I'm not really understanding the obsession over Identify. It's not hard to have the spell in your group from someone else or pay for Identification. And I think my Sorcerer ended up using a greater spell variety than my Wizard over the course of the game.

Twinned spells are very strong and far outweighs not having Identify. At the end of my current run, my Mana Painter was my mvp by a fair margin, even more useful than my Shock Arcanist. Because even though she did a little less damage vs the Arcanist (she did more than I thought she would), she was constantly providing Advantage/Disadvantage and/or Twinned buffs and the value of those was much greater than a little direct damage.

In a closed environment like a pc game, on a second or higher playthrough, sure. Otherwise a sorceror will never be on the same level as a Wizard, especially not in tabletop.

[Frostfeather]

Bak Bon Dzshow の投稿を引用：

In a closed environment like a pc game, on a second or higher playthrough, sure.

No need for metaknowledge to make a Sorcerer work well.

Bak Bon Dzshow の投稿を引用：

Otherwise a sorceror will never be on the same level as a Wizard, especially not in tabletop.

That's simply not true, but it's not really relevant to Solasta anyway.

[Snefru]

The Crimson の投稿を引用：

Sparkle の投稿を引用：

So not choosing 16 but total may be correct?

you can change draconic spells when you get new spells (all free spells that are on sorcerer list can be replaced, so no guiding bolt/entange/barkskin but misty step can be removed)

Misty step can not be removed from my draconian sorcerer. It’s an origin spell for them.

[PXR5]

night4 の投稿を引用：

Bak Bon Dzshow の投稿を引用：

In a closed environment like a pc game, on a second or higher playthrough, sure.

No need for metaknowledge to make a Sorcerer work well.

Bak Bon Dzshow の投稿を引用：

Otherwise a sorceror will never be on the same level as a Wizard, especially not in tabletop.

That's simply not true, but it's not really relevant to Solasta anyway.

My first remark was about the need of certain spells in Solasta. But you interpetration fits your need so run with it.

The sorc is voted one of the three most lackluster classes in 5th together with the monk and the ranger, but you do you.