No feat picks anymore in 5e D&D?

[rcourtney44]

Been a long time since I played D&D been playing Pathfinder. So do you no longer get to pick Feats when leveling up? I just leveled a Fighter to L2 and he did no get any Feat picks? I though Fighters got a Feat every Level? and he is a Dwarf if that matters?

[THAC0]

Originally posted by rcourtney44:

Been a long time since I played D&D been playing Pathfinder. So do you no longer get to pick Feats when leveling up? I just leveled a Fighter to L2 and he did no get any Feat picks? I though Fighters got a Feat every Level? and he is a Dwarf if that matters?

so 5E is considerd a water down version of D&D for many reasons
luckly this game dos take the varient rules and has feats
the problem is that Feats come much slower then normal like 3.5 or such

whenever you gain a Attribute bonus you can take that or get a feat basicly in 5E
so for fighters its like 4/6/8 and what knock it starts at level 4
for paladins its like 4/8 and what knock

[Chris_Woods]

As THAC0 stated, in 5th feats are an "optional rule" by the books, which Solasta fortunately implements.

As far as 5th in general, I tend to agree with THAC0. Character development is so minor compared to previous versions. You basically make one meaningful decision (usually at 3rd level) and otherwise are very much on rails.

[Penitent Pilgrim]

Originally posted by Chris_Woods:

As THAC0 stated, in 5th feats are an "optional rule" by the books, which Solasta fortunately implements.

As far as 5th in general, I tend to agree with THAC0. Character development is so minor compared to previous versions. You basically make one meaningful decision (usually at 3rd level) and otherwise are very much on rails.

That is odd, all my 5e characters chose feats that differentiated them from others in their class, is your DM not allowing feats instead of ability gain?

[Grumpy Old Dude]

Got the option to increase stats or take a FEAT at lvl 4

[rcourtney44]

I like Pathfinder Kingmaker and Wraith of Righteous SO much better!
I like this but not as much, same with BG3

[TrueWarlord真の武]

Feats in D&D 5e are way more powerful, that is why they come slower through character progression.

One simple exemple:

Pathfinder Kingmaker Power Attack Feat = -1 atk roll, +2 damage roll (+50% with 2-handed)

D&D 5e Great Weapon Master feat = Extra attack whenever you kill or achieve a critical strike. Also -5 atk roll, +10 damage roll.

So, D&D 5e obviously has less choices, but the choices are way more meaningful and what you get feels more powerful.

[speedingdeath]

Originally posted by TrueWarlord真の武:

Feats in D&D 5e are way more powerful, that is why they come slower through character progression.

One simple exemple:

Pathfinder Kingmaker Power Attack Feat = -1 atk roll, +2 damage roll (+50% with 2-handed)

D&D 5e Great Weapon Master feat = Extra attack whenever you kill or achieve a critical strike. Also -5 atk roll, +10 damage roll.

So, D&D 5e obviously has less choices, but the choices are way more meaningful and what you get feels more powerful.

The problem is that there are so *few* choices, that there is effectively no choice at all.

Going melee? Polearm Master. Ranged? Crossbow Expert.

Sure, there's stuff like Sentinel etc, that add some utility, but you're forgoing one of the best character improvements (+ abilities) for a feat, and you only do this like once or twice, so you end up with like 1 or 2 more decisions to make, and usually with an obviously best answer.

The biggest flaw with this game, as charming as it is, is that D&D 5e is just a ♥♥♥♥ system to benefit from being automated within a computer game. Are you a group of people around a table with an afternoon to make characters and roll dice? 5e requires almost no prep in comparison to other systems. But in a computer game? All I see is the lack of choice.

[Netiger]

Game design in 5e is basically you get one feature for your character at each level. At each 4 levels, characters get 2 points to increase attributes. As an optional rule, there are feats, which you can choose instead of this.

Fighters in 3.x for instance in were basically +1 BAB and +1 martial feat every 2 levels from 1 to 20 and nothing else.

In 5e they get actual powers (they are the only class that have access to 2 standard actions each turn thanks to action surge) an access to subclasses from level 3 onwards, which give them access to other features in other levels.

[djinnxy]

It's the avocado toast version of d&d. I'm in a small number of people who liked 4e, but I'll take what I can get. If the only way to get a game is to generate appeal to *insert* ______ , then I'll take it.

[TrueWarlord真の武]

Originally posted by speedingdeath:

Originally posted by TrueWarlord真の武:

Feats in D&D 5e are way more powerful, that is why they come slower through character progression.

One simple exemple:

Pathfinder Kingmaker Power Attack Feat = -1 atk roll, +2 damage roll (+50% with 2-handed)

D&D 5e Great Weapon Master feat = Extra attack whenever you kill or achieve a critical strike. Also -5 atk roll, +10 damage roll.

So, D&D 5e obviously has less choices, but the choices are way more meaningful and what you get feels more powerful.

The problem is that there are so *few* choices, that there is effectively no choice at all.

Going melee? Polearm Master. Ranged? Crossbow Expert.

Sure, there's stuff like Sentinel etc, that add some utility, but you're forgoing one of the best character improvements (+ abilities) for a feat, and you only do this like once or twice, so you end up with like 1 or 2 more decisions to make, and usually with an obviously best answer.

The biggest flaw with this game, as charming as it is, is that D&D 5e is just a ♥♥♥♥ system to benefit from being automated within a computer game. Are you a group of people around a table with an afternoon to make characters and roll dice? 5e requires almost no prep in comparison to other systems. But in a computer game? All I see is the lack of choice.

Well, I objectively disagree.

Choose a class, any class, and let's simulate the amount of choices you will make from level 1 to level 8, without multiclassing, in D&D 5e version of the class and D&D 3.5 version of the class.

This is not a subjective matter, you make more choices in D&D 5e.

The fighter is the most obvious example, you will have many maneuvers or even spells to choose from in D&D 5e.

You have less feats, that is true, but you have now more choices than only feats.

[speedingdeath]

Originally posted by TrueWarlord真の武:

Originally posted by speedingdeath:

The problem is that there are so *few* choices, that there is effectively no choice at all.

Going melee? Polearm Master. Ranged? Crossbow Expert.

Sure, there's stuff like Sentinel etc, that add some utility, but you're forgoing one of the best character improvements (+ abilities) for a feat, and you only do this like once or twice, so you end up with like 1 or 2 more decisions to make, and usually with an obviously best answer.

The biggest flaw with this game, as charming as it is, is that D&D 5e is just a ♥♥♥♥ system to benefit from being automated within a computer game. Are you a group of people around a table with an afternoon to make characters and roll dice? 5e requires almost no prep in comparison to other systems. But in a computer game? All I see is the lack of choice.

Well, I objectively disagree.

Choose a class, any class, and let's simulate the amount of choices you will make from level 1 to level 8, without multiclassing, in D&D 5e version of the class and D&D 3.5 version of the class.

This is not a subjective matter, you make more choices in D&D 5e.

The fighter is the most obvious example, you will have many maneuvers or even spells to choose from in D&D 5e.

You have less feats, that is true, but you have now more choices than only feats.

You're cherry-picking the worst iteration of Fighter (and only that one class) in any D&D-adjacent system, but even then, it's still competitive - even 3.5 allowed one to build their fighter towards crit, dual-wield, shield, reach, grapple etc. When including multi-classing, 3.5 fighters could splash in interesting features that would actually interact. When we remove the arbitrary limitation that we have to be talking about fighters, the older systems have far more options and interesting synergies.

Having played 3.5, 4e, Pathfinder etc for over a decade, building characters would take hours, and levelling was never trivial. In 5e, leveling takes 1 minute, because that's how long it takes to write down the one thing you get.

[TrueWarlord真の武]

Originally posted by speedingdeath:

Originally posted by TrueWarlord真の武:

Well, I objectively disagree.

Choose a class, any class, and let's simulate the amount of choices you will make from level 1 to level 8, without multiclassing, in D&D 5e version of the class and D&D 3.5 version of the class.

This is not a subjective matter, you make more choices in D&D 5e.

The fighter is the most obvious example, you will have many maneuvers or even spells to choose from in D&D 5e.

You have less feats, that is true, but you have now more choices than only feats.

You're cherry-picking the worst iteration of Fighter (and only that one class) in any D&D-adjacent system, but even then, it's still competitive - even 3.5 allowed one to build their fighter towards crit, dual-wield, shield, reach, grapple etc. When including multi-classing, 3.5 fighters could splash in interesting features that would actually interact. When we remove the arbitrary limitation that we have to be talking about fighters, the older systems have far more options and interesting synergies.

Having played 3.5, 4e, Pathfinder etc for over a decade, building characters would take hours, and levelling was never trivial. In 5e, leveling takes 1 minute, because that's how long it takes to write down the one thing you get.

I challenge you to pick a class, any class, and we count the amount of choices from level 1 to level 8. If you want multiclass to be included, I have no problem with that. You want more levels? No problem either.

Will you accept the challenge or not?

This is not a subjective discussion about what system you prefer, you're literally stating that 5e has less choices, and I'm calling you to prove what you're saying.

[djinnxy]

I'd go for popcorn, but I already know the outcome.

[Badger]

5e got rid of a lot of the math fix feats that felt mandatory in order to not suck. I loved 4e, really enjoyed Pathfinder: Kingmaker, and am really enjoying BG3 and SOLASTA so far. I prefer the more meaningful decisions of 5e to the other systems.

[speedingdeath]

Originally posted by TrueWarlord真の武:

Originally posted by speedingdeath:

You're cherry-picking the worst iteration of Fighter (and only that one class) in any D&D-adjacent system, but even then, it's still competitive - even 3.5 allowed one to build their fighter towards crit, dual-wield, shield, reach, grapple etc. When including multi-classing, 3.5 fighters could splash in interesting features that would actually interact. When we remove the arbitrary limitation that we have to be talking about fighters, the older systems have far more options and interesting synergies.

Having played 3.5, 4e, Pathfinder etc for over a decade, building characters would take hours, and levelling was never trivial. In 5e, leveling takes 1 minute, because that's how long it takes to write down the one thing you get.

I challenge you to pick a class, any class, and we count the amount of choices from level 1 to level 8. If you want multiclass to be included, I have no problem with that. You want more levels? No problem either.

Will you accept the challenge or not?

This is not a subjective discussion about what system you prefer, you're literally stating that 5e has less choices, and I'm calling you to prove what you're saying.

But you're obviously wrong about this? Only you believe this to be true. Even Wizards knows you're wrong, so, sorry, the burden of proof is on you, bud.

But don't waste your time. The space of possible starting ability scores in 5e is less than 15% of that available in 3.5, 4 and pathfinder.

How many feats in 5e? like 60? How many in Pathfinder? The 'general' list is over 1400, and each class gets several of these by the time a 5e character gets 1 or 2.

And we don't even have to talk about skills. 5e doesn't even give you skill points.

So, please, cry your heart out about Battle Master's long list of tricks, and sure, maybe that's more choice than precisely a 3.5 Fighter that decides to make no choices, but the space of meaningfully distinct builds in 5e fits inside the space of meaningfully distinct builds in those older systems like the rational numbers fit inside real numbers.