I'm OK with current light/dark system, but there should be more ways to light.

[Orbital Drop Spicy Taco]

I'm not that significantly against the current light/dark system of Solasta. I prefer the original 5e rule, but I'm OK to play with this homebrew rule. I'm accepting this as a sort of tactical challenge.
(this is my personal preference, so I'm not saying this is right or wrong.)

But, in the full release, there should be more ways to light during combat. Right now, joining a wizard or a cleric for some lighting spells is feels like forced option in current EA status. We can play Solasta EA without wizard and cleric, but that will bring some unfair tactical weakness to keep light source during combat.

For example, I wish to enjoy 4 human dudes all-fighter party. (No spellblade, a pure "iron and blood" party with two champions and two mountaineers) But these dudes have no way to perfectly resolve the light issue during combat. Someone need to give up two-handed sword or someone need to give up a shield to held a torch.

There should be other ways to light the map during combat. So that even an all-fighter party would not have unfair weakness due to light.

This is my short brainstorming.

1) Throwing a torch. Throwing distance should depends on strength.
2) Launch a fire arrow to the light the torch on the wall.
3) Launch a fire arrow to the enemy. Fire provides the light, and fires for 3~4 turns. (But I guess some players will not like this, this looks like a Larian method)
4) Introduce the oil lamp, and let the lamp can be equipped in the accessory slot, not in hand slot. Let's assume they bind the lamp at their buckle or belt so their hands are free from lamp.

How do you guys think?

[Longear]

Throwing torches and other objects with a light spell cast on them sounds nice.

[Orbital Drop Spicy Taco]

Originally posted by Longear:

Throwing torches and other objects with a light spell cast on them sounds nice.

Hmm I was imagining a situation of no-caster party. But yeah, throw a torch or any lighting object would be an option too.

[jhughes]

I want to like this game .. I really do. But it seems to be that so much of it takes place underground and that the dimly lit enemies are so prevalent there, you have to complete change what I have known for the last 40 years to play this way.

I am currently instead playing Pathfinder: Kingmaker.

I may revisit this game after that, but I am completely turned off by it right now. I wish that was not the case, but it is. This game seems to have so much potential if i can overcome this mechanic. I am just not sure i can.

[.O.]

I don't understand why the light is such a big issue? Yes you have disadvantage but it's pretty easy to overcome, wall torches and breakable windows are everywhere.

[Berserkr]

Yay a third thread about light and darkness just what we needed

[Alci]

I mean yeah there are torches, candles, high elf cantrip picking dancing lights/light cantrip, cleric light cantrip and paladin's sacred weapon from oath of devotion.

Also the light items or spells last long enough before every rests.

Just make a High elf with the cantrip if needed... Dancing light is a moving light source while its up, whereas light can be tagged on 1 melee person.

The only thing you lose out on with torch/candle would be two handing a weapon, shield as offhand or if you dual wield light weapons for the melee people.

Which aren't a big deal to be honest, especially when it is free action to swap item set the 1st time per round.

[valeran46]

Originally posted by Turbulent:

1) Throwing a torch. Throwing distance should depends on strength.

Does not work. Throwing a torch is no different then casting dancing light. The monster just MOVES out of the light radius.

2) Launch a fire arrow to the light the torch on the wall.

This ONLY works when a character with a torch runs up to the wall sconce to light it. Trying to fire a firebolt at the sconce takes, at the moment, a tohit roll that is at disadvantage because? It's in the dark! So you miss trying to fire anything at the sconce.

3) Launch a fire arrow to the enemy. Fire provides the light, and fires for 3~4 turns. (But I guess some players will not like this, this looks like a Larian method)

First, there is no mechanic to light an arrow I know of, but, even IF you could, if you miss see throwing a torch... the monster just moves out of the light radius. IF you light an arrow that hits... IF IT HITS because you're firing with disadvantage AND it kept that monster lit... then MAYBE it could work.

4) Introduce the oil lamp, and let the lamp can be equipped in the accessory slot, not in hand slot. Let's assume they bind the lamp at their buckle or belt so their hands are free from lamp.

You still hit the same situation we players are already in; your character is lit like a christmas tree giving the monsters advantage to hit while YOU are still advantaged to hit any ranged monster or melee monster that is out of the light radius. And YES, the monsters DO disengage after attacking to get out of the light radius.

These actions of the AI is why there are people saying the mechanic as it stands is broken. It's not even "challenging". It's BROKEN.

The only thing that has actually worked is you use a sword/mace in one hand, torch in the other, and chase the monsters around the map like an angry villager in a 40's monster movie. The monsters on the wall or flying monsters, you can't get light to them, so you have to just fire arrows until you hit or throw sleep etc until they fail their save. That's it. That's all there is.

[Orbital Drop Spicy Taco]

Originally posted by .O.:

I don't understand why the light is such a big issue? Yes you have disadvantage but it's pretty easy to overcome, wall torches and breakable windows are everywhere.

I'm kinda same with you, I just wish to have more options of lighting espeically for non-caster party, a game with dudes who have no light or dancing light spell...

[Orbital Drop Spicy Taco]

Originally posted by Alci:

I mean yeah there are torches, candles, high elf cantrip picking dancing lights/light cantrip, cleric light cantrip and paladin's sacred weapon from oath of devotion.

Also the light items or spells last long enough before every rests.

Just make a High elf with the cantrip if needed... Dancing light is a moving light source while its up, whereas light can be tagged on 1 melee person.

The only thing you lose out on with torch/candle would be two handing a weapon, shield as offhand or if you dual wield light weapons for the melee people.

Which aren't a big deal to be honest, especially when it is free action to swap item set the 1st time per round.

Yeah I don't think it is a big deal, I just wish to have some more options. I wished to play 4 human male dudes party, but high elf for a flare? Hmm....

[Orbital Drop Spicy Taco]

Originally posted by valeran46:

Does not work. Throwing a torch is no different then casting dancing light. The monster just MOVES out of the light radius.

I finished 2 campaigns of Solasta EA and dancing light was always the perfect solution for me, I don't know why you are saying it does not work, are we playing a different game? Torch throwing can be a make-up dancing light, and could be a good solution for all-fighter human dudes party.

I don't think the current light/dark is broken. I just think it might bring some unfairness to non-caster party. So more options of lighting is needed .

[valeran46]

Originally posted by Turbulent:

Originally posted by valeran46:

Does not work. Throwing a torch is no different then casting dancing light. The monster just MOVES out of the light radius.

I finished 2 campaigns of Solasta EA and dancing light was always the perfect solution for me, I don't know why you are saying it does not work, are we playing a different game? Torch throwing can be a make-up dancing light, and could be a good solution for all-fighter human dudes party.

I don't think the current light/dark is broken. I just think it might bring some unfairness to non-caster party. So more options of lighting is needed .

Ok. I don't think we're playing different games. I think that people simply don't get the concept.

Monsters in darkness. You are at a disadvantage to hit them. Got it so far? Initiative is rolled. Your caster casts dancing light. Turn over. Monster MOVES AWAY FROM DANCING LIGHT and goes BACK INTO DARKNESS. This is NOT rocket science.

Yes, IF the monster is melee, and IF that monster stays next to your characters, THEN dancing light will work.

Dancing light does NOT work on ranged monsters that simply MOVE AWAY FROM THE LIGHT.

This is a pretty simple concept.

"but but... the light can be movedddddd"

Yes. And the monsters can MOVE AGAIN as well. They DO have that ability you know.

Many of us have already said, this turns your combat into a "chase the monsters with the light" simulation.

[Alci]

Probably the one thing i want them to bring back for Light cantrip, is the option to cast it on an enemy creature with a dex saving throw.

Also does Faerie Fire not exist in this game?

[dulany67]

So you want to use an all melee party, but don't want to be disadvantaged? Well, if you give up combined arms, that's what you need to deal with. I know you will say that limits your choice or your enjoyment, but I'm finding it hard to care.

However, belt lamps or thrown torches are not a bad idea in general.

[wwiiogre]

First they reduced the distance that light works.

Then they increased the application of advantage/disadvantage of dim light/darkness

Then they reduced the effect of darkvision for players but not monsters

DnD has a combat system based on a d20, this gives you percentages for how a fight of known quality players vs known quality monsters will work out based on averages. So DnD can give you an encounter level appropriate for the players based on this math.

It is math, plain and simple.

So when you start adding to one side of a known equation it unbalances that equation so that it can no longer be shown as true.

To compensate for this imbalance (my opinion) the Devs give the players increased stats and a free level.

I am a very experienced DnD player and DM and extremely well versed in math and statistics as applied to the laws of average. I have worked in the tabletop industry with combat systems and dice.

Currently the combat system because of the changes to the lighting system and how it applies to advantage/disadvantage has broken the equation.

How have I dealt with this, I currently have to save scum every players turn, at the beginning and end of the turn.

This is not fun. I should not have to protect my party from the vagaries of a horrible mechanic because not only do I have to roll to hit once, I have to do it twice. This breaks the mechanics of the combat d20 system and the fun of playing. Having to watch repeatedly as the monsters only roll once to hit, yet I have to roll twice is not fun.

Yet I still recommended this game to my nephew and both of my daughters. But with the caveat they will have to save scum or they will total party kill repeatedly because of the broken combat mechanics because of an arbitrary lighting decision.

Really hope this gets an option button to toggle off/on. As it is game breaking and annoying.

I can get around it, but its not fun and feels cheap that I have to cheat to have a chance in a game that is rigged against the players. Since the rules do not apply to most monsters with the same abilities. Just saying, a bad DM cheats, a good DM tries to push the party but in the end the goal is for the party to have fun and everybody wins, the goal is not for the DM to win. That is not roleplaying, that is not fun.

Chris

[Alci]

Faerie Fire from the Sun Cleric domain. "Highlights creatures to give advantage to anyone attacking them" Up to 4 targets, Lasts 1 minute, Dex saving throw negate and Turns them into a light source of 0 bright + 2 dim. Its a concentration spell too so dont be hurt too badly. >_> So there is a way to tag them with light. AND even if you are not dark visioned... the advantage/disadvantage negates itself.

To be honest a bard/druid should have that spell too but it is early access so oh well.