Warlock In Heavy Armor?

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

So, I've been toying around with a character idea I have for making a Pact of the Tome Warlock that wears heavy armor and utilizes a lot of rituals and spells that don't have somatic components.

Can anyone tell me if Eldritch Blast is subject to ASF?

Also, I'm wondering if Solasta will feature all the feats and possibly items and other augmentations that can reduce ASF?

[jmvbento]

Yes, now if you MC into a class, you don't get all the skill, save, and equipment proficiencies you'd have gotten if you started as that class (for example, MC into Fighter doesn't get you proficiency with heavy armour - ironically, MCing into Cleric might, if you pick the right domain, because the domain is a class feature that you DO get).

Flanking isn't a thing, or, rather, it is, but it's an optional rule, and honestly it shouldn't be used as it throws all the combat math out of whack. Rogues sneak attack now if:

a) you have advantage on the attack roll (if you're hidden, for example, or, an example from the demo, if the Deep Spiders are in area of light) or
b) your target has an enemy of theirs adjacent to them (this GENERALLY, but not always, boils down to one of your party members being adjacent to your target) and you don't have disadvantage on the attack roll.

It's pretty much trivial getting sneak attack possibility (also, Rogues can only sneak attack once per turn, but this generally isn't relevant, as they only have one attack anyway, unless they're dual-wielding or they MC'd into something that gives extra attacks).

We're not getting custom backgrounds, and the last time it was asked the "redundant proficiencies get you a different pick" wasn't implemented, but they were looking into it. I don't know what the current status on that is.

For the record, with regards to party composition (and not counting the Ranger because it was changed for the game so I'm not familiarised with it), Rogues are the most sustainable spike damage dealers (because sneak attack conditions are trivial to get), Paladins are the best damage nova'ers due to Smite (and the best tanks alongside heavy armour Clerics, because Barbarians aren't in at launch), Fighters are the best archers (and therefore ranged damage dealers because the Warlock isn't in at launch), Wizards are the best battlefield controllers and they team up with Clerics for buffing your boys up the wazoo or debuffing your enemies into absolute uselessness (my first analysis in every meaningful combat is whether I'm going to Bless or Bane, and Haste or Slow).

[BW022]

Escrito originalmente por jmvbento:

I don't *think* multiclassing will be implemented, because the lead dev doesn't like multiclassing, but there's always the chance they'll throw it in anyways (even if 5E multiclassing is finicky, because it's different than just adding the first level of another class).

That would be a shame. Characters will be limited due to SRD limits and multiclassing is a far easier way to add variety than implementing lots of homebrew classes. If you don't have an eldritch knight, at least you have a fighter/wizard. Rogue/wizard for bard. etc.

[brassi77]

Escrito originalmente por jmvbento:

It's pretty much trivial getting sneak attack possibility (also, Rogues can only sneak attack once per turn, but this generally isn't relevant, as they only have one attack anyway, unless they're dual-wielding or they MC'd into something that gives extra attacks).

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For the record, with regards to party composition (and not counting the Ranger because it was changed for the game so I'm not familiarised with it), Rogues are the most sustainable spike damage dealers (because sneak attack conditions are trivial to get), Paladins are the best damage nova'ers due to Smite (and the best tanks alongside heavy armour Clerics, because Barbarians aren't in at launch), Fighters are the best archers (and therefore ranged damage dealers because the Warlock isn't in at launch), Wizards are the best battlefield controllers and they team up with Clerics for buffing your boys up the wazoo or debuffing your enemies into absolute uselessness (my first analysis in every meaningful combat is whether I'm going to Bless or Bane, and Haste or Slow).

Thank you very much for the info. Looking it up they have the same sneak attack progression as 3.5. With automatic sneak attacks just for having a party member within 5 feet that changes everything. I am slowly learning 5e. With no BAB (that I have seen at least) rogues won't be always at a to-hit disadvantage either. Clearly I have to change how I think about rogues.


Wait, I just looked and the fighter gets an extra attack at 5th, and another at 11 and another at 20. The rogue just has the one attack, but with a possible 5d6 extra damage every turn at lvl 9/10.

Paladin Smite seems nice, but uses spell slots. Extra attack at 5. With action surge I'm not sure why melee fighter isn't considered most sustainable constant no-renew needed damage. If the brute archetype is in they get pretty big damage increases starting at lvl 3. Why do you think fighters are only good at archery? What am i missing?


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At lvl 11 a twf brute would have 4 attacks all doing an extra 1d6 and the offhand attack adding ability score extra damage. (Rpg stackexchange states the extra offhand attack with TWF doesn't gain extra attacks). Or 6 with action surge.

Rogue can have two attacks, but the offhand doesn't do any extra damage at all, just weapon damage, but the mainhand does the extra 6d6 at lvl 11. I didn't look through all archetypes, but the assassin one gives a guaranteed critical. I didn't see any that added extra attacks or damage other than this.

So assuming both have +5, and both using a 1d8 weapons for easier math,

Fighter 4 x 1d8 +5 +1d6 (min 28 max 76) (52 average)

Rogue 1 x 1d8 +5 +6d6, 1x 1d8. (min 13 max 57) (35 average)


Fighters blow rogues out of the water. This is not counting the crit from assassin for surprised opponents, if assassins in, as that would raise the average. But also not counting any action surges.

Obviously, if the game only goes up to lvl 10 and has no Brute this changes everything.

Fighter 3x 1d8 +5 (min 18 max 39) (28 average)

Rogue 1 x 1d8 +5 +5d6, 1x 1d8. (min 12 max 51) (31 average)

Comparable, but Rogues clearly have higher average.


Battle Master looks comparable to paladin Smite. Not as good, but only needing short rests. I wish I understood short and long rests better. Champion is just the improved critical, which is just 5% increased crit so not crazy better output at level 10 or 11.

But Brute seems like a real monster, especially at lvl 20 - they have 5 attacks all doing an extra 1d10. Sharpshooter fighter seems neat, but not much more damage than Battle Master with the 3 uses before rest for the steady aim.

[goumindong]

Fighters tend to do a bit more damage than rogues (though Brute isn’t an official class) buut...

Rogues are far more mobile and sticky and in many cases tanky and their damage is slightly more consistent.

The main things to realize is the power of bonus actions and reactions. Bonus actions do not need to be used to offhand melee attack and generally shouldn’t unless you miss your main weapon attack (the second attack gives you a second chance to apply sneak damage and so their average dmg is not hit chance*dmg but hit chance * dmg plus (1-miss chance) * sneak. ). Bonus action disengage and dash and use an item let you fly around the battlefield and get where you need to be and do what you need to do. A fighter in heavy armor might have 5 move, a rogue in leathers might have effectively 12.

The second is that sneak attack is per turn and not per round, so attacks of opportunity or other reaction granted attacks (like from a battle master) also get sneak attack damage if applicable. A wizard who wants to move away from a fighter is going to take 1d8 + 5 (or up to 2d6+5 or more for a battle master who expends resources). But one who wants to move away from a rogue is going to eat 6d6+5!

The other thing is that fighters rely a lot on bonus damage and critical strikes no longer double bonus damage like they did in 3.5. Instead they double all dice rolls. Yes, including sneak attack damage.

And that is before we get into expertise and uncanny dodge and improved evasion (super good for combining with allied AOE since you only take half damage even if you fail the save) edit: all the stuff affectionately referred to as “rogue ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥” at my table.

[brassi77]

Escrito originalmente por goumindong:

Fighters tend to do a bit more damage than rogues (though Brute isn’t an official class) buut...

Rogues are far more mobile and sticky and in many cases tanky and their damage is slightly more consistent.

The main things to realize is the power of bonus actions and reactions. Bonus actions do not need to be used to offhand melee attack and generally shouldn’t unless you miss your main weapon attack (the second attack gives you a second chance to apply sneak damage and so their average dmg is not hit chance*dmg but hit chance * dmg plus (1-miss chance) * sneak. ). Bonus action disengage and dash and use an item let you fly around the battlefield and get where you need to be and do what you need to do. A fighter in heavy armor might have 5 move, a rogue in leathers might have effectively 12.

The second is that sneak attack is per turn and not per round, so attacks of opportunity or other reaction granted attacks (like from a battle master) also get sneak attack damage if applicable. A wizard who wants to move away from a fighter is going to take 1d8 + 5 (or up to 2d6+5 or more for a battle master who expends resources). But one who wants to move away from a rogue is going to eat 6d6+5!

The other thing is that fighters rely a lot on bonus damage and critical strikes no longer double bonus damage like they did in 3.5. Instead they double all dice rolls. Yes, including sneak attack damage.

And that is before we get into expertise and uncanny dodge and improved evasion (super good for combining with allied AOE since you only take half damage even if you fail the save) edit: all the stuff affectionately referred to as “rogue ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥” at my table.

Thank you for the info. You mean Brute definitely has no chance of being an archetype in this game? Even as future DLC? Is that because it is in Unearthed Aracna and not the PHB? Maybe it can be modded in, because that archetype is definitely my favorite from what I read through.

Again, thank you for the rogue mechanics info. I read the once per turn as only one a round, but knowing it can be used on enemy's turn definitely changes things. And on the off-hand attack if MH attack misses is import info too.

I just read up on proficiencies so now I understand how they work (including expertise and the half proficiency that champions get). How you need a feat to charge (other than the cavalier archetype). And I even found the homebrew archetypes of Solasta. I was wondering why I couldn't find the mountaineer. Battle Cleric seems pretty awesome. So does the Shock Arcanist.

I love when games give you hard choices - now I think I need a rogue, a fighter, a paladin, a battle cleric, and a shock arcanist.

Does this game go up to lvl 20? Because the little tooltip in character creation that lets you show ahead in class abilities only goes up to level 10.

[goumindong]

Right now devs have said only lvl 10 is planned and higher levels are potentially possible in DLC. I am not sure all the fighter archetypes are in but I suspect brute is not among them.

UA is like wizards play test materials and isn’t official or complete. As well like all but one archetype for each class isnt part of the SRD and so is not necessarily part of Solasta’s license which does not appear to have non SRD content

[goumindong]

Looking over a list compiled on the forums (which I will assume to be accurate even though it’s not Solasta dev confirmed) it does appear that each class contains only one wotc archetype and it’s the SRD variant. That is the champion fighter, theif rogue, life cleric, evoked wizard, hunter ranger, dragon sorcerer, and devotion paladin. The rest are all created by the Solasta devs. So Brute is exceedingly unlikely.

[jmvbento]

The Evoker isn't in (it gets replaced by the Shock Arcanist, which blows it out of the water anyway) and neither is the Brute (the only WotC stuff that's in is the SRD stuff, because otherwise Tactical would be violating IP stuff).

Game maximum level is 10, at least at launch. This is enforced the same it was in BG, by capping your XP.

It's not that Fighters are only good at archery, it's that whatever else you want them to do you can generally do better with either Rogue or Paladin (or War Cleric, I GUESS, but if I want a holy warrior that smacks things in the face, I just play a Paladin).

Note that Action Surge doesn't give you any additional off-hand attacks, btw - to make an attack with your off-hand you need to spend your Bonus Action, and Action Surge doesn't give you an extra one (yes, I know the feature is poorly worded because the DnD team is apparently allergic to editors, but even in its current state it clearly doesn't give you an extra BA, it just takes effort to comprehend it).

[TL;DR]

Escrito originalmente por Myzzrym:

No warlock at launch unfortunately, we had to prioritize some classes over others :(

Wait, do you mean the launch of EA or launch of full game?

[brassi77]

Escrito originalmente por jmvbento:

Note that Action Surge doesn't give you any additional off-hand attacks, btw - to make an attack with your off-hand you need to spend your Bonus Action, and Action Surge doesn't give you an extra one (yes, I know the feature is poorly worded because the DnD team is apparently allergic to editors, but even in its current state it clearly doesn't give you an extra BA, it just takes effort to comprehend it).

Thank you for the information. I got my information about the 5 attacks at level 5 with action surge here.

https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/55587/how-many-attacks-can-a-fighter-with-two-weapon-fighting-make-at-5th-level

It claims action surge with the level 5 extra attack gives you two more MH attacks (so not different from what you are saying), but just to clarify and be specific.

From the post

"Which means you would have 2 actions and still have your bonus action. So with this you can take your Attack action (2 attacks), then another Attack action (2 more attacks) and finally, your Two-Weapon Fighting bonus action (one more attack) making for a total of 5 attacks during your turn."

Is this true in Solasta?

[brassi77]

Escrito originalmente por goumindong:

Right now devs have said only lvl 10 is planned and higher levels are potentially possible in DLC. I am not sure all the fighter archetypes are in but I suspect brute is not among them.

UA is like wizards play test materials and isn’t official or complete. As well like all but one archetype for each class isnt part of the SRD and so is not necessarily part of Solasta’s license which does not appear to have non SRD content

Thank you for the info

[jmvbento]

Escrito originalmente por 不买游戏了:

Escrito originalmente por Myzzrym:

No warlock at launch unfortunately, we had to prioritize some classes over others :(

Wait, do you mean the launch of EA or launch of full game?

Myzz means launch of the full game. At-launch classes are the same ones that are in the demo, with Sorcerer to come later as a free DLC. Further class/race/content DLC is, I presume, dependent on the game's financial success.

@brassi77: It SHOULD be. All we have right now is the demo at level 3, so I can't vouch for what happens in other circumstances, but that is how the PnP rules work.