Chances are this is going exclusive to the Epic store as well.

[Shogun]

Wanted to back them on Fig but then this showed up - https://imgur.com/SoUes7d

When a studio puts money before their fan base they don't deserve to be backed.

[DJ Dostoevsky]

Yeah, this was concerning.

Why does Steam have a storefront page for this game if it's gonna go Epic? Seems like free advertising for the dev since EGS doesn't have forums, etc.

Using Steam as an advertising platform with no intention of launching on the store seems shady as heck.

Hope the dev acts with integrity and releases on Steam at launch if they're gonna take advantage of their services leading up to release.

[RustyCow]

The image doesn't mention anything about going exclusive for EGS. They keep the door open which is totally ok as it's still rather early development and the focus for now is the dev of the game itself.

[jd]

Whether we deserve your backing is entirely up to you. The only thing I can say right now is that we are simply making the game. We are not talking to any stores or platforms about exclusivity deals whatsoever. We simply cannot predict the future, so we're not making any promises at this point, so we do not have to break them.

The reason we have this site up and running is that as thing stand we have every intention to release the game on Steam. We would be foolish not to as Steam has been where we sold most games of Unexplored 1.

If that isn't enough for you, that's fair, I understand. I do hope you can support us by wishlisting regardless. So at least you'll be notified when we do release on Steam.

[Shogun]

That's a fair response and it's understandable that you just want to focus on the development of the game. Nobody could blame you if you accepted an offer that is best for your studio and it's staff. Game development is risky and Epic's money provides stability and secures your studio for that bit longer.

Problem in accepting of course is that in this case what is good for the developers is bad for the consumers. The last thing any of us should be doing is supporting a company that want to make the open nature of PC gaming a walled garden. A company that talks about competition and then pays publishers to keep their games off a superior store. A company that constantly contradicts themselves and make it up as they go along.

As for me I'll back the game on Fig. Only thing I would ask is to keep on communicating with your backers. Thanks and what you guys have shown so far looks great.

[jd]

Thanks for your support! The whole reason we're doing the Fig campaign is to build a community. We need the support of players to make this game really happen. This being a generated game we really need a lot of players to try stuff out. If you check our discord forum you can see we are taking our community very serious. In fact, we've already published the first update to the game based on community feedback.

[Honking Capabilities]

Sounds to me like they will make it a timed exclusive and they're using careful language right now to try and seem like they're on the level but also so that in the future they can say 'well we never said we wouldn't so it's your fault for backing us!' Taking a big wad of cash from Epic while using Steam to advertise. Just another scummy developer screwing over the people who got them to where they are in the first place. Wish I could return the first game and get my money back. Lord knows, those scumbags will be rolling in cash when they take that deal.

Getting real tired of the lies and greed. I hope Steam starts suing everyone who used their store to advertise their games only to take a back door deal with something as despicable as Epic. I bet they'll even pull a Shenmue 3 and deny refunds to those who want them after they announce the timed exclusivity.

[jd]

We're using careful language because, indeed, we do not wish to rule out a potential very lucrative business deal beforehand. But I didn't lie when I said that as things stand we are not considering it, and Epic definitely hasn't approached us. Epic's pockets may be deep, but they cannot offer every indie on Steam a time exclusive deal that can compensate the potential loss for not releasing a game elsewhere, let alone the currently most lucrative platform for indies of all: Steam. I do hope you realize we're just trying to be honest and as transparent as we possibly can here.

The Fig campaign is our bid to build a community and offer players an opportunity to be involved in the game's development. It's not a ruse to get some extra money (if we were really talking to Epic the money we raising on Fig would be quite irrelevant, to be honest).

This Steam page likewise is an effort to build a community, nothing more. Our marketing efforts are currently focused on getting the word out through the E3 announcement and follow up articles on various websites, it does not involve Steam directly. I don't think Steam even offers that much support until you are about ready to launch. Obviously there are a couple automated features of Steam that give as some visibility here, but that is nothing compared to the visibility Steam offers upon and after release.

I fear that by suspecting every indie dev of following Shenmue's playbook you might actually playing be into Epic's hand: it reduces the trustworthiness of any dev on Steam that doesn't rule out Epic beforehand (which I hope you understand doesn't make sense from a business perspective), and by extension hollows out the relevance of Steam as a platform as a whole.

I do see the argument that from a consumers perspective the uncertainty of this situation is bad, even if you acknowledge chances of anything happening are extremely slim. In that sense we're all innocent casualties of a battle fought out be two giants way, way, way over our heads.

[Honking Capabilities]

Play the victim all you like. The moment Epic shows up at your door you will happily backstab your entire community and take the cash. You've lost at least one customer already and I hope you lose many, many more. You should be taking a stand against dishonest and greedy practices if you actually gave a flying flip about your community but you've proven that you don't, only money. You seem to have forgotten that building a rapport with your customers is also a very important part of business.

Your 'honesty' and 'transparency' is nothing more than neutral corporate-speak carefully chosen so when you happily take Epic's deal the very instant it's offered you can say you never said you wouldn't. That's all. You won't take a stand and actually give your customers what they want because you're hoping Epic will come calling.

[jd]

Of course I am kinda hoping Epic (or anybody else) shows up and make us an offer we cannot refuse. I simply think it is very, very unlikely, and we're not actively seeking such a deal.

Should such a deal occur nonetheless, how dishonest would we be? We would still release to Steam, only later. We're not asking for money here, so refunding is not an issue. We are asking for money on Fig, but give you access to the game immediately and on one platform of choice upon release.

I am sorry to lose you as a customer, and most of all it pains me that you now have us pinned as only caring for the money. I like to think our track record with Unexplored 1 suggests otherwise. If I was all about the money indie game development is a very poor career choice.

[Honking Capabilities]

I rest my case. You'll jump at the opportunity to backstab your community, just as I said, and now from your own words as well. I hope EVERYONE sees this and knows you for what you are, a hopeful sellout to chinese investors trying to shoulder out the competition with scummy, anti-customer practices through their puppet Epic. I hope you feel good about yourselves, knowing you'd take a deal that would force your customers to download spyware onto their computer just to play your game. Don't worry, the blind fanboys will comfort and defend you no matter what.

[Wok]

Thanks for clarifying the situation and your position.

[spineduke]

Would you consider giving both an Epic key and Steam key to early backers?

Griftlands (a current EGS exclusive) for example, are promising Steam keys even if you buy the Epic version and vice versa.

[Wok]

I would like to stress out that it is allowed by Valve to promise Steam keys when selling pre-orders of your game on another website. You just have to wait before providing the Steam keys that your game starts being sold on Steam.

Indeed, my understanding is that what is NOT allowed is to rely on Steam Distribution (servers, etc.) WITHOUT simultaneously selling the game on Steam. So, you cannot sell Steam keys to players so that they download the beta through Steam, without selling the game as Early Access on Steam.

However, it would be fine if you were doing Early Access completely on Discord, and promised Steam keys down the line when the game is eventually released on Steam. Just like Klei, which does Early Access for Griftlands on EGS for a year, and promises Steam keys when the game is released on Steam later on.

https://steamcommunity.com/games/601840/announcements/detail/1610514097397241772

From the perspective of a backer, the main issue with Epic Games store exclusivity is that, if the game is released as a timed-exclusivity on EGS, then:

- either the backer does not have a choice and has to accept an EGS key (because the dev wants to deliver on day one, and does not promise Steam keys, even though there is a store page on Steam and the game will eventually be there). This is what is bound to happen with Shenmue 3,

- or the backer could choose a Steam key, but for aforementioned reasons, the dev cannot provide the Steam key before the game is being sold on Steam. In this case, the backer has to wait for a year before he can play the game. In the meantime, EGS customers can play the game.

In my opinion, Klei's approach is the best: if there is a store exclusivity, then backers can play on day one on EGS, and when the game eventually comes to Steam, they will be able to play on Steam without being forced to double-dip.

I think it is the most customer-friendly approach: everyone eventually gets what they want, and the dev can accept the deal without antagonizing his playerbase. The only downside which I could think of is that some players might play on EGS and try to recoup some of their money by selling the Steam key ; or the reverse scenario, sell their EGS key and wait for the Steam release. That might be an unfounded fear though, and Klei does not seem to fear that scenario. At least until EGS becomes a true competitor to Steam.

[Peanut!!!!]

Originally posted by jd:

I fear that by suspecting every indie dev of following Shenmue's playbook you might actually playing be into Epic's hand: it reduces the trustworthiness of any dev on Steam that doesn't rule out Epic beforehand (which I hope you understand doesn't make sense from a business perspective), and by extension hollows out the relevance of Steam as a platform as a whole..

Guys its not our fault for being greedy, Tim Sweeney forced us to be greedy Kappa. And what's this ♥♥♥♥ about hollowing out the relevance of steam? You and your game is disposable, whenever you release on steam, you're gonna be outdated and useless cause 50 developers would have taken your place without question. Steam is bigger then you and the EGS, don't think you're more important then your think you are.

[LarryTwoHands]

Originally posted by jd:

If I was all about the money indie game development is a very poor career choice.

^this
all you cry guys need to calm down. You dont have to buy this game if you dont want to. I hate epic too, but witch hunting every single indie dev BEFORE THEY EVEN ANNOUNCE ANY EPIC DEAL is hyper stupid. These ppl are just trying to make art for a living. That is a very difficult and noble thing to do IMO. Show some GD respect.

Originally posted by Peanut!!!!:

don't think you're more important then your think you are.

also whaaaaat does this even mean